Paper annual ticket zone 2-6

[AndyY]

I bought a zone 2-6 annual ticket at Elstree and Borehamwood (NR station in zone 6) this morning. I asked if it can be done on the Oyster card but the ticket office staff told me they "don't do Oyster". As I needed to get to work, I did not argue.

What I got is a paper ticket which says "ELSTREE + BHWOOD & LONDON ZONES 2-6", with the word "Gold Card" printed on the bottom. It will probably wear out and need replacing before the 12 months is up.

1. Is it possible to transfer this ticket to my Oyster card at all? The train company is First Capital Connect (Thameslink).

2. If I take a journey avoiding zone 1, how will the system know that I am doing so? One cannot touch a paper ticket against a red route validator. Will the ticket barrier not let me out at the end of a journey from, say, Harrow on the Hill to Hounslow Central via Rayners Lane?

3. If I need to travel into zone 1 and want to avoiding overpaying, is getting out at a zone 2 station using the paper ticket and touching in with the Oyster card the only option? Is there a way to avoid a break of the journey?

 

[anme]

1. As far as I know, unfortunately it isn't possible to transfer an existing season ticket to Oyster.
2. The ticket barrier will let you out. Paper tickets are not as "smart" as smart cards and won't know what route you took. In this case, LU rely on on train ticket inspections to stop you doing this (and no, I didn't see one for many years).
3. You have to break your journey. The only way to avoid this is to buy a paper LU zone 1 ticket, which costs more than Oyster.

Sorry, not very positive answers... Here's hoping someone else knows better!

 

[soil]

You can get a separate Oyster card with Gold discount.

However you would pay the full Z1-6 fare, rather than the Z1-only fare you would pay if you had the season loaded on Oyster in the first place.

 

[bb21]

Elstree do not have facilities to issue Travelcards on Oyster so staff were correct.

If you want to enjoy discounted fares for travel outside your zones offered by Oyster PAYG, you will need to touch in at a station before leaving the zones covered by your Travelcard season. If you want to avoid the hassle of touching in/out in the middle of a journey, you can buy a paper ticket, but they are a rip-off most of the time.

The gates will not know that you have travelled via Zone 1 so as long as you are within the area covered by your Travelcard season it should let you out, however do be aware that you will be liable to be charged a Penalty Fare, or prosecution, if checked when travelling in Zone 1, should you fail to produce a validated Oyster.

 

[maniacmartin]

I wonder if it would be possible for the OP to do a season ticket changeover to the same ticket but on Oyster at a National Rail station that has Oyster TIS facilities?

 

[bb21]

I don't think you can do a changeover on the same ticket since there is no change in circumstance.

Why would you?

 

[maniacmartin]

Because a Travelcard on Oyster is much more useful when you want to go beyond your zones.

 

[bb21]

Convenience is not covered by Condition 37 AFAIK.

My earlier question was not asking why the passenger would want the medium changed, but rather why would a changeover be required when the ticket is exactly the same.

 

[CyrusWuff]

My earlier question was not asking why the passenger would want the medium changed, but rather why would a changeover be required when the ticket is exactly the same.

It's certainly possible to transfer it from a paper ticket to Oyster, given that's how stations that don't use FasTIS+ as their main TIS do so. However, it's almost certainly against accountancy rules to do so where the original ticket was issued by another station, let alone another TOC, even though no money physically changes hands.

 

[bb21]

I agree. I wasn't doubting the feasibility, but rather whether it is realistic to expect a changeover to be issued under such circumstances.

 

[greatkingrat]

For future reference you can buy an Oyster travelcard online via the TfL site and choose to pick it up at Elstree & Borehamwood.

If you really want the travelcard on Oyster now, I think the only option would be to hand back the paper ticket for a refund and then purchase a new one on Oyster.

 

[RJ]

I'd suggest going to one of First Capital Connect's tickets offices that can handle Oyster transactions and asking for a changeover. The worst they can do is say no.

These ticket offices can be identified by consulting this document and finding the stations where "FASTIS" is an approved TIS - shown in the second column.

 

[AndyY]

Thank you for all your replies.

I will not go for a refund and purchase a new ticket on Oyster. There is a £10 cancellation charge for First Capital Connect, and a lot of hassle with my employer's season ticket loan.

I just find it amazing that it is impossible to buy an annual zone travelcard on Oyster, from a station within the travelcard zones!

From now on, I need to be careful with my ticket so that I do not lose it twice in a year. Also, keep the Oyster card separately from the ticket. I touched in accidentally on my way home from work - old habits die hard!

Thank you for the suggestion of RJ. I will take the ticket and receipt to City Thameslink station, and see if I have any luck. I will report on the result.

One final question: I normally use First Capital Connect to travel to London. Is there any benefit in buying the season ticket from a FCC station? I heard somebody saying that if you buy it from a FCC station and their punctuality falls below a certain level (well to be honest, they were abysmal last year), you get an automatic discount when you renew the ticket, whereas you will not get any discount at all if the season ticket was bought at a London Underground/Overground station. Is this true?

 

[furlong]

If you have no success with this very reasonable request, then I would suggest framing this in a suitable way to submit as a Question to the Mayor.

http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor-assembly/london-assembly/questioning-the-mayor

 

[yorkie]

One final question: I normally use First Capital Connect to travel to London. Is there any benefit in buying the season ticket from a FCC station?

No, I don't think so. I wouldn't buy such a ticket from FCC.

Chiltern offer free travel on all routes (including London-Birmingham) if the Season is to London, valid on their services, and costs more than £1500 per year, but that would only be applicable to you if your Season was Zones 1-6, so if you ever change to a 1-6 Season, you may want to obtain the Season at somewhere like Marylebone.

SWT offer 6 one-day tickets allowing unlimited travel on SWT services at weekends and public holidays, which I believe you could have obtained had you purchased your Season at somewhere like Wimbledon.

I heard somebody saying that if you buy it from a FCC station and their punctuality falls below a certain level (well to be honest, they were abysmal last year), you get an automatic discount when you renew the ticket, whereas you will not get any discount at all if the season ticket was bought at a London Underground/Overground station. Is this true?

I don't think so. I am not an expert on this, but it sounds like someone is referring to the declining practice of 'void days' for Passenger's Charter Schemes, listed at on the ATOC website

When a Season is bought it is - or was - allocated to a "Charter Service Group", where applicable. It is unclear to me whether the issuing location would have made a difference or not, or whether it was merely the origin/destination which counted, but someone more knowledgeable on this subject can confirm either way. I have no idea what happened with Travelcards though!

In any case, such discussion is moot, it is not applicable to FCC, as FCC have a Delay Repay Scheme in place instead. This is applicable irrespective of where the ticket was purchased.

Best thing to do in future is ask on here before purchasing a ticket. The TOCs sometimes don't know how to give good advice, and sometimes aren't allowed to!

 

[trevmonk]

One final question: I normally use First Capital Connect to travel to London. Is there any benefit in buying the season ticket from a FCC station?

They do give two free off peak passes valid across the FCC network if you buy a season online. If you buy in person you have to apply online. I did get them once for my Isle of Wight season bought at an FCC ticket office, but now the online form only lets you select FCC stations when you put your season details in for the freebies.