panicking - fare evasion

[rubsi1003]

Hi everyone,

Firstly I would like to say taht I know what I did was abhorrent and need no reminding of that. i am very regretful

Recently I got a penalty fare for purchasing after departure on A - B

However, over the years i regularly go from A-B-C, without paying A-B (an vice versa C-B-A, without paying B-A.) The ticket cost of A-B is in the low single digits whilst B-C is almost 5-10x the cost. B-C is also over 15x the length of A-B which justified it in my head (stupidly)

I am extremley worried that these journeys will be picked up and fare evasion will amount to 5 figures - please help me

 

[Haywain]

Recently I got a penalty fare for purchasing after departure on A - B

Have you paid the Penalty Fare?

I am extremley worried that these journeys will be picked up and fare evasion will amount to 5 figures - please help me

Which train company issued the Penalty Fare Notice? It goes without saying that you should stop doing what you have been immediately. It is a criminal act and if the scale of it is into 5 figures then it would be easy to see how it could amount to a case of fraud, subject to available evidence. It certainly wouldn't be unreasonable for a train company unvcovering such evasion to look to recover that sort of money. The likelihood of this happening will depend very much on which train company is involved.

 

[rubsi1003]

Have you paid the Penalty Fare?

Which train company issued the Penalty Fare Notice? It goes without saying that you should stop doing what you have been immediately. It is a criminal act and if the scale of it is into 5 figures then it would be easy to see how it could amount to a case of fraud, subject to available evidence. It certainly wouldn't be unreasonable for a train company unvcovering such evasion to look to recover that sort of money. The likelihood of this happening will depend very much on which train company is involved.

Thank you for your reply.

yes i paid the fare within hours

i do not wish to say the TOC as i dont want this to be identifiable

my question is is this considered "shortfaring" if i paid for the majority of the joruney? e..g the most expensive and lengthy part?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2025 ==

to be clear - the 5k figure is only if the entire journey A-C/C-A is considered. if just A-B/B-A it is around £300

 

[Leogilbert007]

Yes it would still be considered short faring; you didn’t have a ticket from the moment you boarded the train to the moment you got off. A ticket for the most expensive part of the journey is not a valid ticket for your whole journey, and TOCs will not accept your reasoning

 

[rubsi1003]

i would also like to mention taht i had to change platforms / trains at B

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you for your reply.

yes i paid the fare within hours

i do not wish to say the TOC as i dont want this to be identifiable

They all work differently, so it’s impossible to give advice if we don’t know this.

 

[rubsi1003]

WMT

 

[AlterEgo]

WMT

WMT may audit your journeys. They’re having a crackdown at the minute. But nobody can say for sure what will or won’t happen.

 

[rubsi1003]

WMT may audit your journeys. They’re having a crackdown at the minute. But nobody can say for sure what will or won’t happen.

Is it still short faring if I changed trains? Will i have to pay from A-C?

 

[Haywain]

Is it still short faring if I changed trains? Will i have to pay from A-C?

Yes, not paying for your full journey is short faring. And, as it is WMT, I expect that you will be hearing from them in due course because they are not as good at this sort of thing as many other train companies, who would have reported you for prosecution giving them time to check your history.

If you have retained the Penalty Fare Notice, it would be advisable to send an appeal as that makes it much more difficult for WMT to prosecute you. The appeal will fail, but it does that prevention job.

 

[rubsi1003]

Yes, not paying for your full journey is short faring. And, as it is WMT, I expect that you will be hearing from them in due course because they are not as good at this sort of thing as many other train companies, who would have reported you for prosecution giving them time to check your history.

Please may you expand on this? What do you mean?

 

[Haywain]

Please may you expand on this? What do you mean?

Reporting you for prosecution would have given them time to research your history and uncover your short faring while still having some leverage over you, in the form of potential prosecution. When a Penalty Fare is issued that leverage is lost and, fortunately for you, this appears to be WMT's modus operandi at the present time.

 

[rubsi1003]

Yes but from my understanding they can prosecute per byelaws / RoRA as far back as 6 months? and fraud has no time limit?

 

[AlterEgo]

Is it still short faring if I changed trains?

Yes.

Will i have to pay from A-C?

WMT would usually want this to avoid prosecution yes. But as @Haywain says here you need to appeal the penalty fare as it (in theory at least!) makes it difficult for them to prosecute you for the occasion you were just stopped.

 

[rubsi1003]

Yes.


WMT would usually want this to avoid prosecution yes. But as @Haywain says here you need to appeal the penalty fare as it (in theory at least!) makes it difficult for them to prosecute you for the occasion you were just stopped.

Thank you for your response. pls may I check what is the benefit of appealing? Since from my understanding they can prosecute for the past 6 months anyway under byelaws / RoRA or indeed for fraud?

 

[Haywain]

Since from my understanding they can prosecute for the past 6 months anyway under byelaws / RoRA or indeed for fraud?

They can't prosecute a Penalty Fare matter if it has been appealed, essentially. Just send an appeal saying it isn't fair, job done. Until you appeal the PF could be rescinded and then you could be prosecuted.

 

[rubsi1003]

I understand taht they cant prosecute for the penalty fare incident, but they could prosecute for incidents in the past 6 months under byelaws / RoRA? or anytime under fraud? I'm not sure i see the advantage of appealing

 

[Haywain]

I understand taht they cant prosecute for the penalty fare incident, but they could prosecute for incidents in the past 6 months under byelaws / RoRA? or anytime under fraud? I'm not sure i see the advantage of appealing

Ultimately, it's up to you. We're just trying to help.

 

[rubsi1003]

No of course sorry, I didn't mean to be dismissive at all - Im just in a very scrambled headspace at the moment. I suppose what Im asking is it worth it to draw more attention to it by appealing since they can still prosecute anyway?

 

[AlterEgo]

No of course sorry, I didn't mean to be dismissive at all - Im just in a very scrambled headspace at the moment. I suppose what Im asking is it worth it to draw more attention to it by appealing since they can still prosecute anyway?

They will find it difficult to prosecute for railway specific historic offences which require proof of you having travelled.

 

[rubsi1003]

They will find it difficult to prosecute for railway specific historic offences which require proof of you having travelled.

Understood. So in essence they already know I did something because i got a penalty fare so it gives them a sure way to prosecute? If they prosecute for the PFN, are they able to recoup the fares evaded? I guess what I am asking is, is it in their interest monetarily to get me to pay back owed fares under the threat of this prosecution vs just prosecuting and no recouping of fares?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2025 ==

And is scan data (staff on train scanning e ticket) / CCTV not enough proof?

They will find it difficult to prosecute for railway specific historic offences which require proof of you having travelled.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2025 ==

'5.25 Although not binding, this ruling provides persuasive clarity that, where a passenger’s penalty fare appeal has been dismissed, a TOC may prosecute. (Where an appeal is upheld, the passenger is immune from prosecution.) Nevertheless, ambiguity and uncertainty relating to the 2018 Regulations have impacted TOCs’ approaches to prosecution, with some TOCs opting not to prosecute when a passenger has appealed a penalty fare, while others have chosen to prosecute in the same circumstances.'

To me this reads that appealing does not impact ability to prosecute due to Feb 2025 changes? Please correct me if I am misunderstanding this

 

[Pushpit]

To me this reads that appealing does not impact ability to prosecute due to Feb 2025 changes? Please correct me if I am misunderstanding this

This ruling is not a definitive, as in final, statement of the law, but it is persuasive as things stand. However in your shoes I would pay immediately and appeal on the basis of being unfair (or whatever) since it makes it very difficult - but perhaps not impossible - for the train company to remove the Penalty Fare. Several things need to be done and these things typically are not done. Having done that, it may not be the end of the matter but one bridge at a time.

 

[rubsi1003]

This ruling is not a definitive, as in final, statement of the law, but it is persuasive as things stand. However in your shoes I would pay immediately and appeal on the basis of being unfair (or whatever) since it makes it very difficult - but perhaps not impossible - for the train company to remove the Penalty Fare. Several things need to be done and these things typically are not done. Having done that, it may not be the end of the matter but one bridge at a time.

thanl you for replying, will apealling increase the attention to my case that may otherwise not have?