Panicked rail passengers force 'hijacked' train to stop

[87015]

What rubbish, the driver would have made a announcement as it's required of them to do so - usual drivel from the Metro.

If they actually bothered to listen to the announcement then they wouldn't be complaining but sadly passengers like these are like sheep who have a set routine so anything which upsets the balance confuses the hell out of them.

I've been on FCC services before which the driver has stopped at a unbooked station to advise passengers the train was being diverted and rail replacement services were being organised from that station.

And I've been on many weekend London Bridge - Sutton services, when they have actually managed to run the booked service, and the communication is usually dire. The PA on the platform can't be heard once you are on the train and with the short turnarounds during any sort of issue (usually seems to be driver late on duty/missing taxi/no relief) at best you seem to get a muffled annoucement which is stormed through 30 seconds before the doors close. Its often far from clear and its easy to see how punters can get overcarried.

Just because its got pink doors doesn't make everything perfect in the real world I'm afraid.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The article says FCC were planning on running the train back from Sutton to drop passengers off. It reads to me as though the train couldn't take the booked route to Sutton due to some kind of failure but could take the opposite road back from Sutton. Maybe the 23:01 to Sutton works the last one back to London from Sutton too?

But if they did not hear the announcement if one was made (as I said, it is entirely possible that any announcement made was not at all audible), then they would not have known that.

 

[jon0844]

What planet do these idiot reporters live on?
Clearly the driver made a decision not announce the revised stopping pattern as it is so much fun being confronted by irate customers when you finally do stop ( for those that don't get it I was being sarcastic)
For that many people not to have heard it is more likely a PA fault on a specific coach, certainly not a good enough reason to pull the chord and then exit onto the track, maybe the passengers will get the message one day when one of them fries on the 3rd rail that this kind of behaviour is idiotic and downright dangerous

I can't speak for the 319s as I rarely use them, but there are some 313s and 317s where you can barely hear anything (even though you CAN hear the automatic announcements) so there's quite likely a fault with the microphone at at least one end of the train.

Surely it is possible the driver DID do an announcement but for whatever reason, it didn't get broadcast within the train?

 

[notadriver]

I think this is a good argument for having guards on trains. He/she would be visible and could have walked through the train advising passengers and control to what was happening. Special stops could have been added for example.

 

[SAPhil]

I would agree that it is perfectly possible that an announcement was made and yet was not audible. I travel on these trains daily and there have been occasions where I have been unable to hear a word uttered by the driver!

 

[jon0844]

On DOO trains then passengers may not ride in the affected vehicles. The key here is 'known' - the PA should be tested when the train is prepared for service, and for all anyone knows the PA was working on preparation. The PA may have failed during the day at some time, no fault indication is given to a failed PA on any train I work (including those fitted with a TMS). The first indication train crew often get of a fault with the PA is when a passenger points it out to us. If a potential fault with the PA hasn't been brought to the attention of the crew during the day then it is possible that they don't know about it.

I've been on two trains in my life where the driver has opened the internal door and asked if his announcement was heard correctly. It was, but clearly nobody could tell him about the other three coaches! The drivers that don't - how do they know it's working?

313s don't announce stations and probably 95% of drivers don't. If you didn't board at the start or end of the route, you'd not have any idea if the PA system worked as it's only when starting that the driver gives the required safety instructions and announces the route (or, sometimes JUST the safety info and very, very rarely - but still happens - nothing at all. In those cases, was it the driver not doing it or a broken PA system?). You might find out if the driver said anything approaching some stations with interchanges, such as Alexandra Palace or Finsbury Park - and then on termination at Moorgate or King's Cross.

How likely is it that a passenger would think to report what they believed to be a broken PA system? I've been on 313s with the internal lights turned off and been the first one to alert the driver at Finsbury Park. Most passengers just seem like they don't care one bit - even if they later decide to moan and whinge.

 

[tannedfrog]

Problem 1: there was no guard to reassure passengers about the diversion and that their tickets were valid to Sutton and back
Problem 2: passengers are aware that FCC RPIs don't like excuses so if found at Sutton without a ticket valid that far, a penalty fare or worse could be feared

 

[Bungle73]

Announcement or no, for the passengers to act like they did is ridiculous. "Kidnapped"? "Hijacked" train? Just because it missed a few stops? Really?? :roll:

 

[87015]

Problem 1: there was no guard to reassure passengers about the diversion and that their tickets were valid to Sutton and back
Problem 2: passengers are aware that FCC RPIs don't like excuses so if found at Sutton without a ticket valid that far, a penalty fare or worse could be feared

Bigger Problem: By the time that train gets to Sutton there is no connection back on themselves and the box says the units (2x319) went back to Orpington as the booked class 5 ECS move.

 

[driver9000]

But if they did not hear the announcement if one was made (as I said, it is entirely possible that any announcement made was not at all audible), then they would not have known that.

While there is clearly some huge breakdown in the communication for whatever reason I do think Metro has blown this out of all proportion in the way it has reported the story.

I'm curious as to how FCC knew the Driver made an announcment, does the computer on the new 37x units record PA use? Assuming it was a 37x anyway, I doubt 319s record PA use - our QTron and Arrowvale recorders don't.

 

[WelshBluebird]

While there is clearly some huge breakdown in the communication for whatever reason I do think Metro has blown this out of all proportion in the way it has reported the story.

I'm curious as to how FCC knew the Driver made an announcment, does the computer on the new 37x units record PA use? Assuming it was a 37x anyway, I doubt 319s record PA use - our QTron and Arrowvale recorders don't.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I just think some of the replies on this thread just aren't fair.
Yes, the passengers were in the wrong.
But blaming them for not listening to an announcement that may not have even been made, let alone audible, is just wrong.
Of course the metro will blow it out of all proportion - the more people they can get to read their paper, the larger their audience, so the more people will pay to advertise in it.

 

[driver9000]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I just think some of the replies on this thread just aren't fair.
Yes, the passengers were in the wrong.
But blaming them for not listening to an announcement that may not have even been made, let alone audible, is just wrong.
Of course the metro will blow it out of all proportion - the more people they can get to read their paper, the larger their audience, so the more people will pay to advertise in it.

Of couse and I haven't laid blame with the passengers. I pointed out that the Driver may have made a PA announcment in good faith believing the equipment to be working throughout the train. There may have been no indication to suggest otherwise. What does annoy me about the story is use of words like hijack and hostage when in actual fact it may be a simple technical error or fault that has made the driver think everything is cool because he has told his passengers the situation and the passengers think everything is cool because they haven't been told otherwise. A very unfortunate trip.

 

[jon0844]

Do 377s go to Sutton? I didn't think they did, so it would presumably have been a 319. Being so similar to a 317, I can well believe there are issues with the PA system on quite a lot of them.

 

[scotsman]

Anyone read the comments section? Apparently FCC's PR department are posting pro-FCC comments, if we're to believe "FCC Commuter"

 

[lookingforit35]

This could only happen in London really, from what I have seen from my transits across our capital, London commuters seem to lack a little in the common sense department.

Not a generalisation in any way of course, as that would demonstrate quite a high level of ignorance.

 

[spacehopper]

How many times have I worked a train with a "defective" PA maybe once out of hundreds thousands of trains. The defect "you may want to turn the volume up on your tannoy". Generally if things are coming out garbled the pax will let you know!

If it is an out of course event- delay / change to stopping pattern / cancelation. I will always walk through the train if I can and let them know face to face. While it maybe much easier than to just make an announcement if you walk through and explain in person- it gives you a chance to explain, apologise, tell them the alternatives and make sure they know exactly what is going on. You do an announcement they tend to start to panic and have many unanswered questions.

By all means make an "ice breaker" announcement then follow it through explaining you will be making your way through the train and feel free to ask any question or for more help.

This is what I do as a guard- on a DOO train running through sarf London late at night I'm sure the approach and clientele would be entirely different!

 

[OuterDistant]

Metro journalists please note: my definition of a "train hijacking" is the chase scene from The French Connection. And I would imagine that a lot of other people's is, too!

 

[Southern]

For anyone in doubt, FCC to Sutton is 100% 319 run. Southern are the only operator to run 377's to Sutton or around the Wimbledon Loop.

 

[PTF62]

A train is not allowed to enter service if the PA is known not to be working from a maintenance depot. It may enter service from a stabling point as long as the vehicle(s) without PA are locked out of use if possible. On DOO trains then passengers may not ride in the affected vehicles. The key here is 'known' - the PA should be tested when the train is prepared for service

Well the testing clearly does not happen on FCC, as I have had the need to report inaudible announcements on several occasions.

I assume that FCC would also be breaking the rules if the staff I reported the fault to, didn't then ensure that the train or at least that carriage was taken out of service immediately, and that it remained out of service until the fault was fixed.

Oh look flying pigs.

And if I was on a late evening train where there had been no announcement that the train was not calling at the scheduled stations, then I would pull the emergency cord. Quite simply what other way is there of communicating with the member of the staff operating the train. If FCC don't like that, then don't run DOO trains.

 

[Geezertronic]

You have to laugh... train hijack? Where there's a blame there's a claim anyone? Serious emotional damage

 

[northwichcat]

You have to laugh... train hijack? Where there's a blame there's a claim anyone?

They need to be careful as travel insurance normally covers delays but excludes hijack.

 

[jon0844]

haha.. I can just imagine all of the people who cried 'hijack' to the media will suddenly go, 'oh, no, it wasn't hijacked' when they want their compo!

 

[455driver]

While understandable, wouldn't it have been the responsibility of the TOC to ensure they reached their destination? e.g. arranging buses or taxis from Sutton to the stations where the passengers should have been able to alight.

Obviously if there were communication issues, then the situation could have been very worrying for people.

The train was going to drop them off on its way back from Sutton, why dont you read the article!