Pan down quickly at Farringdon?

[Railcar]

Last wednesday (April 13th 2022) I was on a Horsham-bound THameslink Train which pulled into Farringdon. The doors were released and in quick succession there was a double-thump on the roof (presumably the pantograph being lowered). Are the controls for 'door release' and 'pan down' close together in the driving position of a 700? Or is there a 'two-handed' technique known only to drivers?

 

[jon0844]

Last wednesday (April 13th 2022) I was on a Horsham-bound THameslink Train which pulled into Farringdon. The doors were released and in quick succession there was a double-thump on the roof (presumably the pantograph being lowered). Are the controls for 'door release' and 'pan down' close together in the driving position of a 700? Or is there a 'two-handed' technique known only to drivers?

The doors open automatically in the core, so it was probably just a coincidence.

 

[Kite159]

Isn't there something on the track which makes the pan drop automatically at Farringdon?

 

[Western Sunset]

Thought pan down was automatically done at Farringdon (southbound) and pan up at City Thameslink northbound.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Apr 2022 ==

Isn't there something on the track which makes the pan drop automatically at Farringdon?

 

[Railcar]

The doors open automatically in the core, so it was probably just a coincidence.

Good point. Where does the 'door open' command come from? Triggered by the GPS position? Is 'pan down' also triggered by the same system?

 

[TRAX]

Good point. Where does the 'door open' command come from? Triggered by the GPS position? Is 'pan down' also triggered by the same system?

I suppose it’s more of a balise (beacon) system

 

[D365]

I suppose it’s more of a balise (beacon) system

I believe so; all part of the ATO (Automatic Train Operation).

 

[pdeaves]

Triggered by the GPS position?

It wouldn't be GPS as that is unlikely to be accurate enough under ground or in heavily built up areas. As someone else said, it will be a balise, a piece of fixed equipment.

 

[whoosh]

It is a ballise, yes.

In manual driving mode in the core, you have to stop accurately by the relevant stop car marker. If you are within the stopping 'window' then you get a green icon on your display in the cab. This means you can release the doors.
Releasing the doors makes them all actually open when in the core.
When at Farringdon southbound and City Thameslink northbound, getting the green icon means the train will automatically swap over from AC to DC or vice versa, without any input from the driver.

In ATO mode, the doors open automatically upon coming to a stand, but there's still a huge amount of drivers still not trained - the course for ATO includes ETCS in-cab signalling.

In either manual or ATO the doors and AC/DC changeover can all be done quickly.

 

[E27007]

I'm sure it was Faringdon, the 319s were dropping pantographs without good reason, it was traced to a scrap AWS magnet which had been dumped in either the cess or the 6 foot and was triggering the drop

 

[Fincra5]

It is a ballise, yes.

In manual driving mode in the core, you have to stop accurately by the relevant stop car marker. If you are within the stopping 'window' then you get a green icon on your display in the cab. This means you can release the doors.
Releasing the doors makes them all actually open when in the core.
When at Farringdon southbound and City Thameslink northbound, getting the green icon means the train will automatically swap over from AC to DC or vice versa, without any input from the driver.

In ATO mode, the doors open automatically upon coming to a stand, but there's still a huge amount of drivers still not trained - the course for ATO includes ETCS in-cab signalling.

In either manual or ATO the doors and AC/DC changeover can all be done quickly.

What he said...

 

[MrB]

Is Thameslink fully ATO now, in the core?

 

[Fincra5]

Is Thameslink fully ATO now, in the core?

Depends... The Driver has to be Trained on ETCS L2 and ATO. ATO also isn't used at certain hours - basically when City TL is shut.

If you train comes to a stop at the station and the doors instantly open... you're on an ATO Train.

 

[aleggatta]

Depends... The Driver has to be Trained on ETCS L2 and ATO. ATO also isn't used at certain hours - basically when City TL is shut.

Does this mean that ATO can't cope with skip stopping? or is it that the skip stop routes haven't been loaded into the ATO system yet (or purposefully left out to save confusion?)

 

[Fincra5]

Does this mean that ATO can't cope with skip stopping? or is it that the skip stop routes haven't been loaded into the ATO system yet (or purposefully left out to save confusion?)

You can skip Stations on ATO but you have to tell the Train to. Also you have to stop at City, even when closed, to do the DC to AC changeover... ATO would open the doors.

Plus.... you want to keep up manual handling in L2.

 

[Efini92]

I'm sure it was Faringdon, the 319s were dropping pantographs without good reason, it was traced to a scrap AWS magnet which had been dumped in either the cess or the 6 foot and was triggering the drop

Was it dropping the pan or opening the VCB?

 

[MrB]

Depends... The Driver has to be Trained on ETCS L2 and ATO. ATO also isn't used at certain hours - basically when City TL is shut.

If you train comes to a stop at the station and the doors instantly open... you're on an ATO Train.

Thanks!

 

[E27007]

Sorry , do not know, I was on S&T duties and not involved, but word went around to be more selective when positioning scrap or new equipment when out on the line.
I'm reminded of the Class 56 issue when they were new, The locos were dropping out and it was traced to interference from National Grid HV transmission lines over the railway, would that be an Engine Run/Engine Stop solenoid being trippeed?

 

[43066]

If you train comes to a stop at the station and the doors instantly open... you're on an ATO Train.

AIUI that happens even if the train is being driven manually. It is triggered by track balises so can only happen when the train is stopped in the correct position, hence no safety risk.

 

[357]

Was it dropping the pan or opening the VCB?

It would open the VCB same as the magnets do for a neutral section