Padgate to Wigan via Liverpool

[NorthWestRover]

I am travelling on Thursday 4th June from Padgate to Liverpool at 18.15, then at 23.15 from Liverpool to Wigan. This is apparently possible by splitting at Warrington - Anytime Day Single from Padgate to Warrington and then Anytime Day Single from Warrington to Wigan. £6.70 with Senior Railcard.

Now, I know it must be valid as I have got an itinerary on Trainsplit (with the four hour wait in Liverpool), but it seems a long way round to be a permitted route!

It is valid, isn't it and I'm not missing something obvious?

 

[jfollows]

Warrington to Wigan is only valid direct on the WCML as far as I can ascertain, so I don’t understand why you have a ticket via Liverpool, but it’s valid because of the itinerary you have.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Presumably it's valid because you can't get to Warrington Bank Quay from Padgate?

 

[yorkie]

This is confusing as it's not immediately clear what the question is.

However, I understand you are asking if it's permitted to travel Warrington Central to Wigan via Liverpool?

Yes it is, however now that it's been posted here, I would expect a negative easement or route restriction to be added.

Alternatively, I'd expect the fare from Warrington Stations to Wigan to be abolished and for such fares to only be issued specifically from Warrington Bank Quay.

I also doubt it will work the barriers at Liverpool, though if you are following the itinerary exactly, then staff are duty bound to let you through (but may make a note of the details to report the matter to be fixed).

Oh well, at least you'll get one use out of it, which is more than can be said for @TUC when he posted about a loophole; it didn't take long for a negative easement to be implemented:

Mirfield to Leeds via Sowerby Bridge

Can someone please advise whether Mirfield to Leeds via Sowerby Bridge is a permitted route? The journey planners say yes, but i am left wondering whether there is a doubling back element in the Sowerby Bridge area so wanted to check.

www.railforums.co.uk

Can someone please advise whether Mirfield to Leeds via Sowerby Bridge is a permitted route? The journey planners say yes, but i am left wondering whether there is a doubling back element in the Sowerby Bridge area so wanted to check.

There are people out there who work at/for RDG and various TOCs who are very keen to scour this forum for any loopholes they can abolish. I think some of them see it as a game they get pleasure from succeeding at.

 

[TUC]

Oh well, at least you'll get one use out of it, which is more than can be said for @TUC when he posted about a loophole; it didn't take long for a negative easement to be implemented:

Mirfield to Leeds via Sowerby Bridge

Can someone please advise whether Mirfield to Leeds via Sowerby Bridge is a permitted route? The journey planners say yes, but i am left wondering whether there is a doubling back element in the Sowerby Bridge area so wanted to check.

www.railforums.co.uk

Within around two days I seem to remember

 

[NorthWestRover]

Interestingly it worked the barriers to enter Lime St. No ticket checks other than that.

 

[Swedenorer]

Interesting - using the NR Routing Calculator it comes up as a mapped route but on the yellow pages it doesn't only Map NC is given. When I lived up there admittedly 55 years ago now we'd never have used Padgate for anything else but Liverpool - Manchester and otherwise taken the SELNEC bus to Wilderspool Caiseway for Bank Quay or vice versa maybe with a detour to the Hogie Wagon if the time was right. I wonder if some engineering work easement is lurking somewhere.

 

[timetable_guy]

A bit late to this, given its after the travel date, but thought I'd chip in. I've been building my own journey planner, fares and splits engine (no small task, but it wont be the first I've built in my career). Note: Still developing and refining no might not be 100% right. But I've been looking for real world test cases. This is what I see for your journey:

Both fares are issued on Route 01000, which is a local area route used for short distance fares in that part of the North West. Route 01000 has essentially* no routing constraints (bar excluding Southsea Hoverport). So in effect both tickets permit travel by any reasonable permitted route:

1. Padgate --> Warrington ticket was/is valid on the 18:15 towards Liverpool; the train passes through Warrington Central, which is all that's required.
2. Warrington --> Wigan ticket covers the 23:15 Liverpool --> Wigan leg because route 01000 places no restriction on routing via Liverpool. From Warrington, the ticket permits onward travel via Liverpool - is effectively using that ticket from Warrington Central onwards on the 18:15 train (continuing to Liverpool), and then on the 23:15 from Liverpool to Wigan. The whole Liverpool leg sits within the permitted routing of the second ticket.

The four-hour wait in Liverpool is irrelevant to validity Anytime Day Singles don't restrict when within the day you travel, and there's no rule requiring you to take the most direct route.

My implementation finds this exact split too.

 

[Barnsley]

Looks like they’ve put a restriction in now!

Image shows a screen shot of Fujitsu journey planner showing via Liverpool is not a permitted route