Paddington to Slough fare inconsistency

[ctom_s]

Hi there,

My girlfriend and I travelled to Slough from Paddington on Friday Evening, I bought a boundary zone ticket since I have a z1-6 travelcard and she was looking to buy a standard anytime single. We were in the queue for the machines at the station and a member of staff came up and offered to buy her a ticket from her own mini-ticket machine she was holding. My girlfriend said she had a network railcard and was charged £13.00 for the ticket.

I'd noted there were tickets available for £9.60 beforehand (before railcard discount) so I was expecting it to cost £6.40 so was a bit surprised about this. But I knew vaguely about the evening peak at Paddington and that sometimes tickets can be complicated so we just rolled with it since we were in a rush.

Now I've looked into this I've no idea why she was charged £13, tickets are definitely available to buy on the service we caught (the fast service at 18.42) at £9.60 before railcard discount and I can verify this on national rail/GWR website. This ticket is an "Anytime" ticket so any peak restrictions shouldn't apply (?). I'm also not sure why the railcard discount wasn't applied to the £13 ticket (my gf stated it said network railcard on the ticket, although I didn't check)

On the GWR website there is a ticket for £13 but the restrictions seem identical to the £9.60 one so I've no idea why you might want to buy this more expensive ticket.

I'm a bit miffed about this. Passengers are rely and trust staff to get them the best value fares and it's really bad if this isn't done since there is obviously massive information asymmetry. Presumably if she'd continued to wait in the queue for the machine she would have saved 50% off her fare.

Does anyone have any other explanation for some of all of this?

Tom

 

[swt_passenger]

It’s nothing to do with the evening peak, as soon as you select a Network Railcard on weekdays the minimum fare becomes £13.00, and obviously it shouldn’t have been applied on any lower fare. Staff should have known not to sell it, but your girlfriend probably shouldn’t have asked for it...

 

[ctom_s]

It’s nothing to do with the evening peak, as soon as you select a Network Railcard on weekdays the minimum fare becomes £13.00, and obviously it shouldn’t have been applied on any lower fare.

So you are actually charged more for using a network railcard on a weekday than not in this case?

It begs the question that you must know in advance how much a ticket will cost you before deciding whether to ask for a railcard discount or not which seems crazy?

 

[alistairlees]

The correct fare is £9.60.

The minimum discounted fare with a Network Railcard is £13.00. Fares that are less than this should not be discounted at all. So the £9.60 fare should remain a £9.60 fare (and no Network Railcard discount applied; the ticket should not state "Network Railcard" on it either).

You were overcharged by £3.40. You should claim this back from GWR. If you ask nicely they might give you some extra vouchers.

Just as importantly, GWR should ask their supplier to fix this issue and should also ensure their staff are fully trained.

 

[some bloke]

seems crazy?

Yes. As a non-expert I'd ask for the money back.

We'd expect someone selling tickets to have a reasonable idea how much the standard London-Slough ticket should cost, and how the railcard scheme is supposed to work.

In line with a sane procedure, passengers are told that it's a minimum *discounted* fare. That clearly doesn't mean the minimum is £13 even if the undiscounted fare is £2.
https://www.network-railcard.co.uk/using-your-railcard/minimum-fare/

We might expect there to be a fare that it's discounted from.
http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=PAD&dest=SLO

What does it say on the ticket? One explanation could be that the staff member sold a first class ticket.

a member of staff came up and offered to buy her a ticket from her own mini-ticket machine she was holding. My girlfriend said she had a network railcard and was charged £13.00 for the ticket.

your girlfriend probably shouldn’t have asked for it...

The account above says she mentioned the card rather than that she asked for the card to be used. Even if she did, I can't see how that would change the position.

as soon as you select a Network Railcard on weekdays the minimum fare becomes £13.00...

I don't understand that. What would it say on the ticket?

If that is what happens on some systems there seems to be a mistake. The National Rail Enquiries website shows £9.60 with the railcard.
http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/PAD/SLO/tomorrow/1730/dep

 

[swt_passenger]

In line with a sane procedure, passengers are told that it's a minimum *discounted* fare. That clearly doesn't mean the minimum is £13 even if the undiscounted fare is £2
If that is what happens on some systems there seems to be a mistake. The National Rail Enquiries website shows £9.60 with the railcard.
http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/PAD/SLO/tomorrow/1730/dep

There have many previous discussions of this anomaly, mostly concerning whether TVMs should or shouldn’t automatically deal with it. Surprising staff let it happen though.

I think similar problems have been reported about the 16-25 card weekday minimum fare as well.

 

[BluePenguin]

There have many previous discussions of this anomaly, mostly concerning whether TVMs should or shouldn’t automatically deal with it. Surprising staff let it happen though.

I think similar problems have been reported about the 16-25 card weekday minimum fare as well.

I just tried a test purchase and the discount simply doesn't get applied rather than the price of any ticket I choose to buy becoming £13

Edit: Actually in some cases it does! This is a surprise...

 

[swt_passenger]

I just tried a test purchase and the discount simply doesn't get applied rather than the price of any ticket I choose to buy becoming £13

Edit: Actually in some cases it does! This is a surprise...

I haven’t checked recently, but SWT certainly defaulted to £13 a couple of years back. My replies were mostly based on people’s previous reports here...

 

[some bloke]

If online or machine sales cost people more money than an undiscounted ticket, that would seem worse than an individual staff member charging wrongly. Knowingly failing to fix the problem might look like fraud.

I'm not sure what argument there might be for charging people £30 for a card on the basis that it gives discounts, then ever charging more. Although the phrase "minimum fare" is what appears in the terms and conditions, as noted above the website says "minimum discounted fare". Perhaps we could say the railcard contract is breached.

If the software cannot handle a procedure, then perhaps it or other information can be modified to warn people.

From the Rail Delivery Group's Ticket Vending Machine Ten Point Improvement Plan, December 2016:

Make customers aware if cheaper tickets are available through the TVM

If there is a cheaper alternative ticket available via the TVM that might allow the customer to
travel on their specified journey more cheaply, this should be made clear. It is accepted that
limitations of TVM retailing mean that TVMs will not be able to advise on some alternative
products eg Advance products or mobile only fares, or might not be able to accurately advise on
the suitability of some products eg Returns.

ACTION: Work with the TVM suppliers and the TOCs to understand what existing configuration
elements can be used to meet this requirement or, where that’s not possible, to understand what
changes are needed.

BENEFIT: Customers never unknowingly pay more for a ticket than they needed

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/about-us/publications.html?task=file.download&id=469771182

 

[daveshah]

From memory, I mistakenly tried to add a 16-25 railcard to an anytime ticket before 10am on a SWR TVM last year and I was given the choice of increasing to the minimum fare or removing the discount (I presume the former is for other railcards which have extra benefits).

 

[Merseysider]

From past experience, whilst GWR are in general rather crap, their customer service I can’t fault.

An email outlining the details should result in a refund, hopefully rounded up (ie: At xx:xx on 14th September £13.00 was charged instead of £9.60, here is an image of the tickets, please refund the overcharge).

 

[ctom_s]

Thanks for all the replies guys, the ticket would have been swallowed at Slough since it's just a single and think she chucked the receipt (would the receipt be enough on it's own anyway?). It's just something we'll have to note for the future and luckily only cost £3 this time.

I think the staff can't always be blamed but as some people have mentioned the system should have somehow defaulted to the cheapest ticket railcard or otherwise just like the websites do.

I wonder whether the mini hand held ticket machines use a different system to the big TVMs maybe that's the problem. I'm presuming a TVM would have shown the correct tickets from responses here but perhaps not.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Staff can and should be blamed in this instance.

 

[andrewkeith5]

I've definitely seen this problem on GTR and GWR booking systems - although in those you're offered the undiscounted fare as well as a "railcard discounted" inflated £13 fare.