Paddington to Penzance sleepers.....

[Masbroughlad]

I wouldn't disagree, 150/1s on long distance routes is never good. In fact they are probably the most unsuitable units in the fleets (as the 143s can't go to Penzance anyway).

It makes you think that in the 1980s the 150/1 was BRs flagship unit and did many long distance journeys such as Ipswich - Leeds and Birmingham to Lincoln :cry:

What were the Ipswich to Leeds services? Which route did they take?

 

[Failed Unit]

What were the Ipswich to Leeds services? Which route did they take?

This was back in the 1980s before the regional express network.

Leeds, Wakefield, Sheffield, Nottingham, peterbourgh, Ely, bury St Edmunds, Ipswich.

Don't remember it's route to Peterborough, I think it was Grantham.

It was replaced by the Ipswich - North West / Birmingham services when the 156s arrived.

 

[TEW]

Why is the guard's area in the carriage with dim lighting? Surely this means there is less space for passengers who prefer to sleep under dimmer light (which is surely the overriding preference) as opposed to having it in the brightly lit carriage, where one would assume fewer people would want to be? Also, isn't the guard more likely to accidentally disturb those who want to sleep in the dimmed section if his/her compartment is there? Maybe I am wrong about this, so please correct me if so. I assume a mitigating factor would be that if the dimmed carriage is at the end of the train, so fewer people are walking through anyway, having the guard's area there - and perhaps in the direction of the middle of train but in that carriage - would not be such a problem.

It does seem a bit odd, I believe it's because that is what the lighting is set up to allow. Carriage A used to be a First Class carriage and Carriage B used to be a Standard Class carriage and they have different lighting clusters. It may just be that only Carriage A lighting has been set up to be dimmed. The guard won't be making much noise in there in the main part of the journey, once the train is stopping less, so past Plymouth really the guard usually spends most his/her time in the buffet/lounge car with the customer host.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On this subject, what is the consist of the train?

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Penzance
X-Additional Guards Van, Dim Lighting, only added when high demand is expected
A-Guards Van, Dim Lighting
B-Standard Lighting
C-Buffet/Lounge Car
D,E,F,G-Sleeper Carriages
H-Friday only PAD-PNZ, Sunday only PNZ-PAD extra sleeping carriage
London

Can be reversed sometimes because on Sunday nights the sleeper does sometimes run via Yeovil, reversing at Exeter.

 

[richw]

Can be reversed sometimes because on Sunday nights the sleeper does sometimes run via Yeovil, reversing at Exeter.

Last weekend for example the up sleeper was in reverse on monday night i believe, with the sleeper carriages at the penzance end.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
there is a hired in loco hauling the up tonight, just seen it pass my window and being hauled by a grey loco, anyone know what loco this is?

 

[KA4C]

Last weekend for example the up sleeper was in reverse on monday night i believe, with the sleeper carriages at the penzance end.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
there is a hired in loco hauling the up tonight, just seen it pass my window and being hauled by a grey loco, anyone know what loco this is?

System says it was 57603

 

[MattRobinson]

the guard usually spends most his time in the lounge car with the customer host.

Oo

Penzance
X-Additional Guards Van, Dim Lighting, only added when high demand is expected
A-Guards Van, Dim Lighting
B-Standard Lighting
C-Buffet/Lounge Car
D,E,F,G-Sleeper Carriages
H-Friday only PAD-PNZ, Sunday only PNZ-PAD extra sleeping carriage
London

Can be reversed sometimes because on Sunday nights the sleeper does sometimes run via Yeovil, reversing at Exeter.

Ok, cheers.


Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

 

[jopsuk]

were the formations much the same in the final years before the motorail service (latterly just friday nights and full journey only) ceased), just with the extra vans added on the Penzance end of the formation on Fridays?

 

[HSTEd]

Is there any particular reason the train could not be outfitted with DVTs? Other than the lack of TDM equipped diesels suitable for the train?

 

[Nym]

Is there any particular reason the train could not be outfitted with DVTs? Other than the lack of TDM equipped diesels suitable for the train?

No...

 

[IanXC]

Is there any particular reason the train could not be outfitted with DVTs? Other than the lack of TDM equipped diesels suitable for the train?

Other than the lack of TDM equiped diesels, there isn't a great pressure for quick turnarounds to consider. Also, would the ride be compromised in push mode?

 

[HSTEd]

Other than the lack of TDM equiped diesels, there isn't a great pressure for quick turnarounds to consider. Also, would the ride be compromised in push mode?

Well it would enable the installation of a genset in the van or the provision of luggage services, the latter of which I think would go down well with sleeper customer while the former would remove any need for a rescuing locomotive to be ETS equipped.

Course we could see the replacement of the diesels quite soon with a composite electric-diesel operation.

Also it would allow the release loop at Penzance (I assume there is one there?) to be removed from service, reducing maintenance.

 

[Nym]

Oooohh, if it was going to be an ETS fitted DVT a'la Chiltern, or even just having a generator carriage (Old Mk2 or something) to provide power, then you could just haul it with any old freight locomotive, and post electrification, you could just add a transformer, pantograph and rectifier into this 'generator coach'. Rather than having it as a DVT, if you wanted to simplify rescue operations.

 

[flymo]

Also it would allow the release loop at Penzance (I assume there is one there?) to be removed from service, reducing maintenance.

Can't remember seeing a release loop at Penzance, mind you it is yonks since I was there so the memory may not be so sharp.

 

[Zoe]

Can't remember seeing a release loop at Penzance, mind you it is yonks since I was there so the memory may not be so sharp.

There isn't one.

 

[Jobsworth]

What use would a spare loco and driver have been if the hotbox had been on one of the sleeping cars?

 

[jopsuk]

Can't remember seeing a release loop at Penzance, mind you it is yonks since I was there so the memory may not be so sharp.

As said, there isn't one- as at Paddington, a second loco comes in from the depot to haul the the train to the Penzance TMD at Long Rock.

 

[Zoe]

As said, there isn't one- as at Paddington, a second loco comes in from the depot to haul the the train to the Penzance TMD at Long Rock.

I'm not sure that's always the case. It believe is has been propelled and there is also a shunter available.

 

[TEW]

Propelling was the standard method of moving the train to/from Long Rock but the 08 is used more frequently nowadays.

 

[Zoe]

Propelling was the standard method of moving the train to/from Long Rock but the 08 is used more frequently nowadays.

Is another 57 ever used?

 

[Nym]

Shunt that carriage out and carry on.

 

[HSTEd]

How much work would it be to refit the sleeper Mark 3s with TDM cables, fit the Cl57s with TDM equipment and fit the DVTs with diesels for ETS?

 

[jopsuk]

far too much I'd guess- at the very least you'd be better off nabbing two or three of the remaining un-allocated 67s surely and using the same AAR MW controls as the Chiltern/ATW DVTs surely?

 

[marks87]

Quite so, I'm not sure it's clear the sleepers will even survive the change.

If (and it's a big "if") they don't, would that potentially benefit ScotRail?

What was the extent of the 2008 refurb? And, more pertinently, did it leave the sleeper coaches in a better condition than the current Caley Sleeper ones?

 

[crewmeal]

As previously stated I don't think FGW will spend the money on any Night Rivera projects until the franchise is sorted out. There's a lot of cash to find for it before any cash is set aside with rolling stock. Having said that if there are spare 57's hanging about the Country, it's a shame they can't be used on a standby basis at Paddington and Penzance.

Once all this has been sorted, then decisions can be made on what needs to be done regarding the Night Rivera.

 

[HSTEd]

far too much I'd guess- at the very least you'd be better off nabbing two or three of the remaining un-allocated 67s surely and using the same AAR MW controls as the Chiltern/ATW DVTs surely?

You would ideally want TDM because that would enable you to use electric working on the first part of the run to Bristol should you want to.
Or if the electrification ever goes beyond Bristol you potentially get to convert to mostly electric operation.

But this all depends on the costs involved in fitting the 57s for TDM versus fitting the DVTs for AAR equipment.

 

[455driver]

So the sleepers are going to be routed through Bristol regularly is it?
There was me thinking it normally went B&H unless there was engineering work on that line.
Why fit push/ pull (of any type) when it effectively has a 12 hour turn around, not exactly cost effective.
The sleepers dont make much if any money so there wont be the will or desire to spend money unnecessarily.

 

[HSTEd]

So the sleepers are going to be routed through Bristol regularly is it?
There was me thinking it normally went B&H unless there was engineering work on that line.

Taking advantage of the electric traction if it is available makes sense, especially as the time benefits of using the Berks and Hants are entirely worthless (due to the long transit time).
As I understand it is used to run via Bristol all the time historically with a call there, but this was removed to allow it to run via B&H as required.

Why fit push/ pull (of any type) when it effectively has a 12 hour turn around, not exactly cost effective.

Propelling moves are only permitted at low speeds, meaning you block up either Penzance or Paddington station throat for a significant length of time in the morning rush hour (more a problem at the latter).
Push pull would enable it to run out as a normal train without requiring a second loco be attached at the rear. (as using release loops at Paddington, if they even still exist, would be a nightmare in pathing terms)

The sleepers dont make much if any money so there wont be the will or desire to spend money unnecessarily.

Reducing the number of locomotives required to run the service using things like push pull working reduces the cost of the service and thus stems its losses.
Likewise providing a checked baggage facility aboard the train would be useful for a customer service "relaunch".

EDIT:
Out of interest how much space inside the Chiltern DVT does the Genset take up? Would it be impossible to provide both a checked luggage service AND an ETS generator?

 

[crewmeal]

Does it matter which route it takes? It's still scheduled for an 8 hour run in both directions. It's probably good to have a choice of routes between Paddington and Taunton, so if there are any problems then an alternative can be used at short notice.

Not being too technically minded though, I can't see the problem of having a top and tail policy in the same way as some charter trains do, especially the Northern Belle which has the 2 47's permanently allocated to that train.

 

[455driver]

It is normally routed B&H, if there is engineering work then it can go any way which is open including via Yeovil.

 

[TEW]

Is another 57 ever used?

No, there are no spare 57s at Penzance. It's only about a mile shunt so low speed is no problem.