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Pacers running on preserved railways - your thoughts?

Should pacers run on preserved railways?


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Techniquest

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I'd certainly not turn down a 144 on the KWVR, although I'd still prefer something like a 37 in such a situation. That could be partly because it's a long way from home and I couldn't really be that fussy if a 144 produced.

It's just a matter of time before Pacers become nostalgia enough for me to go and actively look forward to travelling on one. Probably by the end of the decade if I was to guess!

On which note, is the 144 on the KWVR in a heritage condition or is it still in Northern colours?
 
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xotGD

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On which note, is the 144 on the KWVR in a heritage condition or is it still in Northern colours?
West Yorkshire PTE livery.

The 143 has not been painted into Tyne and Wear PTE livery. Which is just as well, as it might give me unpleasant flashbacks!
 

YorkshireBear

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I'd certainly not turn down a 144 on the KWVR, although I'd still prefer something like a 37 in such a situation. That could be partly because it's a long way from home and I couldn't really be that fussy if a 144 produced.

It's just a matter of time before Pacers become nostalgia enough for me to go and actively look forward to travelling on one. Probably by the end of the decade if I was to guess!

On which note, is the 144 on the KWVR in a heritage condition or is it still in Northern colours?
Northern interior, WYPTE exterior.
 

geordieblue

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For starters the many branchlines of Devon and Cornwall, the Severn Beach Line in Bristol, the Esk Valley Line, Skipton to Morecambe, the Harrogate Line, the Penistone Line, the Pontefract Line, half of the Calder Valley Line and the South Fylde Line (Preston to Blackpool South) to name a few.
You are just listing lines that the Pacers worked. There is no evidence that the use of Pacers actually ‘saved’ any of these lines and a number were instead saved from closure for well-established other reasons - eg Esk Valley was retained due to the state of the roads in the area.
 

PacerTrain142

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There’s no concrete evidence for any of that though is there, just assumption.

I’m 33, I’ve done plenty of Northern pacer journeys, I wouldn’t take anyone to any heritage railway where a pacer was the primary rolling stock. Fair enough if it was operating a second service, but I’d choose a different railway rather than go to one only running a pacer.

That said, I have recently booked to go on a 144 around Scunthorpe Steelworks by night, but that’s literally the only way of seeing the site working at night, so the pacer is not the main attraction.
Is that where you get to drive a pacer? That is awesome and something I definitely want to do one day.
 

Iskra

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Is that where you get to drive a pacer? That is awesome and something I definitely want to do one day.
No, this is the night time pacer around the steelworks with the molten metal, etc on show. (I’m not sure exactly what we will see but it’s only a fiver).

They do a separate pacer driving experience
 

PacerTrain142

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No, this is the night time pacer around the steelworks with the molten metal, etc on show. (I’m not sure exactly what we will see but it’s only a fiver).

They do a separate pacer driving experience
Oh right, that sounds a pretty good experience. The driving experience costs a lot more, over £100 I think!
 

renegademaster

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No, this is the night time pacer around the steelworks with the molten metal, etc on show. (I’m not sure exactly what we will see but it’s only a fiver).

They do a separate pacer driving experience
Is that the one with Branch line society?
 

PacerTrain142

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Anyone wishing to avoid the Pacers at the KWVR tomorrow can hop across the Pennines to the ELR...

...where a Pacer is in service!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Looking on the webcam at Haworth there seems to be a decent turnout for the pair of Pacers.

Goodness knows why!
Nostalgia probably. I feel nostalgic when I see/watch videos/ride on a pacer, esspecially a class 142, as they're the train I grew up riding on my local line (Colne - Blackpool South). Had many trips to Blackpool South with my parents on the pacer. About 2 hrs journey there and 2 hrs back.

It's similar to how I feel nostalgic when I hear a pop song from 2010, or see a computer running Windows XP, the operating system I grew up using at school and the library. My first computer ran XP and although it was slow and often ran into problems, I loved using it and wouldn't have had it any other way. I actually bought an old laptop off ebay running windows xp a year or two ago, just for the nostalgia. Just like those who grew up in the 50's and 60's might feel nostalgic about steam trains or 1st gen DMU's, those who grew up in the 80's/90's/00's might feel nostalgic about pacer trains. The next generation will probably feel nostalgic about turbostars, voyagers, IET's and Class 195's. Nostalgia is a funny thing.
 
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Iskra

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Is that the one with Branch line society?
No, it’s through the Appleby Froddingham Railway direct on their website- they do nighttime Pacer tours and day brake van tours. BLS do do such tours though in co-operation with the AFR, presumably covering more rare track.
 

m79900

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Nostalgia probably. I feel nostalgic when I see/watch videos/ride on a pacer, esspecially a class 142, as they're the train I grew up riding on my local line (Colne - Blackpool South). Had many trips to Blackpool South with my parents on the pacer. About 2 hrs journey there and 2 hrs back.

It's similar to how I feel nostalgic when I hear a pop song from 2010, or see a computer running Windows XP, the operating system I grew up using at school and the library. My first computer ran XP and although it was slow and often ran into problems, I loved using it and wouldn't have had it any other way. I actually bought an old laptop off ebay running windows xp a year or two ago, just for the nostalgia. Just like those who grew up in the 50's and 60's might feel nostalgic about steam trains or 1st gen DMU's, those who grew up in the 80's/90's/00's might feel nostalgic about pacer trains. The next generation will probably feel nostalgic about turbostars, voyagers, IET's and Class 195's. Nostalgia is a funny thing.
I get nostalgic about Sprinters and Voyagers, and can see how people could feel the same about Pacers and 91s, but Turbostars and IETs are just so characterless. I don't see how anyone could ever get excited by them.
 
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PacerTrain142

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I get nostalgic about Sprinters and Voyagers, and can see how people could feel the same about Pacers and 91s, but Turbostars and IETs are just so characterless. I don't see how anyone could ever get excited by them.
I agree Turbostars and IETs are pretty boring. I cant imagine them ever coming to heritage railways.
 

Mat17

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I agree Turbostars and IETs are pretty boring. I cant imagine them ever coming to heritage railways.
I'm sure they will, at least Turbostars. Still trying to get my head around seeing a 158 or a 150 on a heritage line.

I do like 150s, so I'd hope a few make it.

But first gen DMUs will always be my childhood memory trigger, straight back to 1987.
 

PacerTrain142

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I'm sure they will, at least Turbostars. Still trying to get my head around seeing a 158 or a 150 on a heritage line.

I do like 150s, so I'd hope a few make it.

But first gen DMUs will always be my childhood memory trigger, straight back to 1987.
158’s still feel way too modern for heritage railways, I don’t think many would want to ride one, but I think a few 150’s May have some success on heritage lines.
 

Ashley Hill

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158’s still feel way too modern for heritage railways, I don’t think many would want to ride one, but I think a few 150’s May have some success on heritage lines.
At least one of each should be preserved to keep the novelty factor. Unlike pacers where everyman and his dog has one they don’t feel as special.
Should a number of 150s get preserved I can see some pacers getting sidelined.
 

Class73man

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I have a biased opinion on pacers.

Despite the fact their designs have been flawed for their "bounciness" on the ride, seat comfort and stench. The construction by using a Leyland National Single Decker Bus body and 4 wheeled spare wagon, they have been somewhat one of the most efficient way to be built by saving money and re-using parts which again is efficiently done. Performance wise is somewhat impressive as they are pretty fast based on the experience of riding the GWR Class 143s from Exmouth to Paignton (I don't work for any railway companies nor am I a driver).

But preservation wise, they are excellent for uses on short heritage railway lines and for shuttles. Yes, this may not satisfy nor attract the public as most of them prefer steam but they do serve a purpose for marking down history in the railway based on how they were constructed and their reliability among heritage railways.

Nonetheless, I do not mind them at all.
 

PacerTrain142

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I have a biased opinion on pacers.

Despite the fact their designs have been flawed for their "bounciness" on the ride, seat comfort and stench. The construction by using a Leyland National Single Decker Bus body and 4 wheeled spare wagon, they have been somewhat one of the most efficient way to be built by saving money and re-using parts which again is efficiently done. Performance wise is somewhat impressive as they are pretty fast based on the experience of riding the GWR Class 143s from Exmouth to Paignton (I don't work for any railway companies nor am I a driver).

But preservation wise, they are excellent for uses on short heritage railway lines and for shuttles. Yes, this may not satisfy nor attract the public as most of them prefer steam but they do serve a purpose for marking down history in the railway based on how they were constructed and their reliability among heritage railways.

Nonetheless, I do not mind them at all.
Ive only been on a 143 once between Newton Abbot and Paignton in 2017, but from the videos I’ve seen they do seem quite speedy, the 142’s though, not so much..
 

61653 HTAFC

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I have a biased opinion on pacers.

Despite the fact their designs have been flawed for their "bounciness" on the ride, seat comfort and stench. The construction by using a Leyland National Single Decker Bus body and 4 wheeled spare wagon, they have been somewhat one of the most efficient way to be built by saving money and re-using parts which again is efficiently done. Performance wise is somewhat impressive as they are pretty fast based on the experience of riding the GWR Class 143s from Exmouth to Paignton (I don't work for any railway companies nor am I a driver).

But preservation wise, they are excellent for uses on short heritage railway lines and for shuttles. Yes, this may not satisfy nor attract the public as most of them prefer steam but they do serve a purpose for marking down history in the railway based on how they were constructed and their reliability among heritage railways.

Nonetheless, I do not mind them at all.
There are a few myths that have sprung up about Pacers, not least the allegation that they "saved several lines from closure". There's not much if any evidence that they actually did.

Similarly the "built from old buses mounted on freight wagons" thing is a bit misleading. The bodyshells were derived from bus designs, and the underframes were based on the experimental High Speed Freight Vehicle, but none of the Pacers were actually built out of re-used buses or freight wagons.
 

PacerTrain142

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Got Chat GPT to write a humorous story about an unfortunate scenario that could happen on a preserved railway.


Ah, the tale of a man with a passion for steam trains and an unrelenting disdain for Pacer trains. What a day it promised to be when he decided to take his unsuspecting family to a heritage railway for a delightful outing during a steam gala. The sun was shining, his enthusiasm was palpable, and little did he know, a rollercoaster of disappointment lay ahead.

So, armed with a wallet that would soon regret opening, he shelled out a whopping £50 for an unlimited travel family day ticket, confident that it would be worth every penny. Or so he thought.

Arriving at the platform, the family waited with eager anticipation, the man dreaming of the magnificent steam engines that would soon grace their presence. But, alas, their excitement turned into boredom as the minutes ticked away and the train was nowhere to be seen.

Finally, the train huffed and puffed its way in, a whole 20 minutes late. They scrambled aboard, reserving a luxurious compartment for themselves. However, his dreamy reverie was shattered when he overheard a member of the train staff muttering about the engine struggling.

The train sat there like an ornate yet immobile ornament for 15 more agonizing minutes before it reluctantly started chugging. But not for long. After a few minutes, the train came to a grinding halt. A despondent guard informed them that the train had broken down and they'd have to wait for a replacement.

His heart sank like the Titanic, and the kids, sensing an extended period of sitting around, promptly began their usual "messing about" routine. A further 20 minutes passed before the guard returned with dire news: all the diesel and steam locomotives were out of service, leaving them with only one option – the dreaded diesel multiple unit.

They were then instructed to disembark the immobile steam relic via a ladder. Yes, a ladder. Crossing the tracks became the order of the day, and they reluctantly clambered onto the waiting Pacer train, a recent addition to the heritage railway's fleet, now serving as a brutal reminder of his 20 years of daily commutes on the dreaded machine.

To make matters worse, this Pacer was only two coaches long, and the train quickly became as crowded as a clown car. As if mocking him, the heavens clouded over, and the rain began to pour. Leaky windows made the interior resemble a leaky colander.

The kids, of course, needed the toilet, but alas, the one on this Pacer train was out of order, adding to their misery. As the train screeched around corners, he could only close his eyes and hope the nightmare would end soon.

A torturous 40 minutes later, they reached the end of the line. It was a chance for the family to escape the confines of the Pacer, and they made a beeline for the restroom and grabbed some refreshments, attempting to salvage what was left of their outing. But alas, the weather remained unforgiving, prompting them to seek shelter back on the dreaded train.

They headed back to the station where their ordeal had begun, and by then, the man's mood had soured to match the stormy skies. At the ticket office, he stormed in, his face as red as a tomato, demanding a refund for the day's tickets. The staff member's response? "Not my problem." And with those words, his face turned even redder, if that were possible.

So, the family, soaked and disillusioned, headed home. What was meant to be a joyful adventure of steam engines turned into a nightmare on wheels, courtesy of the much-maligned Pacer train. The man learned a valuable lesson that day: sometimes, even the most well-planned trips can turn into the kind of comedy you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy.
 

dakta

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That little AI story actually sums up the pacers reputation rather well - steam breaks down, rain falls down, bad customer service, damn those pesky pacers :D
 
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