Pacers elsewhere?

[Peter Kelford]

The pacers have a bad name for themselves, mainly due to their use as 'near mainline' units in the north, but perhaps could be returned to service elsewhere, such as on scenic routes where there large windows and panoramic doors would be appreciated while low speeds negate the rough riding? Of course, they would be refitted, but with a small loading gauge, light axle load and reasonable top speed, they surely shouldn't be totally scrapped but rather moved to other parts of the network? I can also think of a realistic use for heritage lines, where such units could supplement their steam services, allow for run-round free extensions or operate a more intensive service. Can anyone think of places where the pacers could be reused?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I can think of a few places:
- Scrapyard
- Bean tins
- Coke cans
- Hen houses
- Garden sheds
- Did I mention scrap?

 

[Iskra]

Most scenic routes are long. Pacers are generally fairly uncomfortable, so they aren't sensible for long distance scenic journeys.

If kept on, it should be only for short branch lines or shuttle services. St Erth-St Ives, the Barton Branch, Bradford-Huddersfield, Wakefield-Huddersfield, Lancaster-Morecambe etc.

But I would prefer them gone as soon as we have enough units to replace them. A few should definitely be preserved and they could help the economics of some preserved lines.

 

[hexagon789]

The pacers have a bad name for themselves, mainly due to their use as 'near mainline' units in the north, but perhaps could be returned to service elsewhere, such as on scenic routes where there large windows and panoramic doors would be appreciated while low speeds negate the rough riding? Of course, they would be refitted, but with a small loading gauge, light axle load and reasonable top speed, they surely shouldn't be totally scrapped but rather moved to other parts of the network? I can also think of a realistic use for heritage lines, where such units could supplement their steam services, allow for run-round free extensions or operate a more intensive service. Can anyone think of places where the pacers could be reused?

I think they are done-in. It's not like some stock which has been scrapped before time, with Pacers their time has come and gone really.

They just aren't suited to the modern network and modern needs.

 

[johnnychips]

I got a pacer from Doncaster to Sheffield this morning and have been walking the Don Valley all day, so I saw loads. I will miss them, but not that much

Pros - big windows, seats quite comfy in whatever format
Cons - terrible acceleration and screeching round corners; cold in anything but summer

 

[DPWH]

They have a role to play yet in the heritage sector.

 

[NoMorePacers]

They are absolutely knackered though.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Pacers must be taken off commuter and mainline services. However, I don't see why it needs to be sent to the scrapyards.

 

[Bevan Price]

They have a role to play yet in the heritage sector.

Forums
Only on any lines that want to attract the (fairly low) numbers of Pacer fans. Any line using Pacers regularly would almost certainly see a long term decline in passenger numbers.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Scrap them without a second thought.

 

[Clansman]

I can think of a few places:
- Scrapyard
- Bean tins
- Coke cans
- Hen houses
- Garden sheds
- Did I mention scrap?

Children's park play frame?
Mechanical bull?

What about preserving 10 of them, placing them at major stations across the UK and have a dedicated "Nostalgia Corner" to pacify those extremely hellbent on keeping them in service at all costs.

 

[DPWH]

Forums
Only on any lines that want to attract the (fairly low) numbers of Pacer fans. Any line using Pacers regularly would almost certainly see a long term decline in passenger numbers.

A small number of pacers will be a useful people movers for heritage railways, particularly smaller ones without a great deal of money as they will be cheap to run compared to steam, and there will be enough pacer fans to donate time and money to keep them going, similar to what 1st generation DMUs do on preserved lines now.

 

[NoMorePacers]

A small number of pacers will be a useful people movers for heritage railways, particularly smaller ones without a great deal of money as they will be cheap to run compared to steam, and there will be enough pacer fans to donate time and money to keep them going, similar to what 1st generation DMUs do on preserved lines now.

Yeah but 1st generation DMUs look heritage nowadays, with slam-doors and their new BR Green paint scheme. Pacers do not look heritage whatsoever.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Children's park play frame?
Mechanical bull?

What about preserving 10 of them, placing them at major stations across the UK and have a dedicated "Nostalgia Corner" to pacify those extremely hellbent on keeping them in service at all costs.

Or maybe:

- 'Immersive' train driving simulators
- Crew training
- Home Conversion
- Restaurant
- Museum
- Home for a Model Railway
- Camping Coach
- Complementary exhibit to preserved stations such as this one.
- Standby units
- Empty siding population
- Railtours
- Export

Yeah but 1st generation DMUs look heritage nowadays, with slam-doors and their new BR Green paint scheme. Pacers do not look heritage whatsoever.

Your username is 'NoMorePacers' yet your argument suggests that pacers are a good thing.

 

[Cowley]

They’ve got to go.
There’s no point keeping them just for a few scenic lines here and there because it means having an already worn out micro fleet which will need extra crew training and a different maintenance scheme/parts etc from the standard fleet.
Just not worth it I’d have thought.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Or maybe:

- 'Immersive' train driving simulators
- Crew training
- Home Conversion
- Restaurant
- Museum
- Home for a Model Railway
- Camping Coach
- Complementary exhibit to preserved stations such as this one.
- Standby units
- Empty siding population
- Railtours
- Export



Your username is 'NoMorePacers' yet your argument suggests that pacers are a good thing.

How am I saying that? I am saying that Pacers aren't really the sort of train you'd expect to find on a heritage railway.

 

[ScotTrains]

Convert them into buses to provide a cheap in-house rail replacement bus service during engineering works. Passengers won't even notice they're not on a train!

 

[UP13]

They could be used for railtours in 50 years time when future enthusiasts will want to recreate the commuting experiences of their ancestors...

 

[6Gman]

Pacers must be taken off commuter and mainline services. However, I don't see why it needs to be sent to the scrapyards.

So they're ok for off-peak services?

The very time their extra capacity would be least needed ...

 

[66Yorks]

Heritage railway.

 

[Peter Kelford]

So they're ok for off-peak services?

The very time their extra capacity would be least needed ...

I didn't say that. They are an excellent choice for what's known in the airline industry as a 'long and thin' route. 2 or 3 hours between several medium-sized cities.

 

[hooverboy]

Pacers must be taken off commuter and mainline services. However, I don't see why it needs to be sent to the scrapyards.

I don't think they need to be entirely removed...there are still some very small routes where a relief train in peak times would come in handy,and could sit in the sidings for the remainder of the day...to be brought out as a rescue service if required.

ie ye olde 121 bubble car aylesbury-princes risborough.
stourbridge jn currently used by 139.
bourne end-marlow

all of these are routes are basically 15 minute journeys,so should not really need a toilet.

 

[Welly]

Just stuff and mount one example of each Pacer class in a dedicated "Pacers - A Warning From History" shed at either NRM York or Shildon.

 

[TheBigD]

Perhaps a future as artifical reefs around our coastline?

 

[Ianno87]

Pacers do not look heritage whatsoever.

So stick them in one of the following liveries:

Provincial Blue
GMPTE Orange
'Skipper' Chocolate and Cream

 

[ian959]

I didn't say that. They are an excellent choice for what's known in the airline industry as a 'long and thin' route. 2 or 3 hours between several medium-sized cities.

Your definition of excellent is vastly different to mine! 2 to 3 hours stuck on a Pacer would qualify as cruel and unusual punishment in my book!

Plenty will be preserved as they will be cheap and potentially will help resurrect commuter services on some heritage lines but creating artificial reefs with them would be the best use I can think of for them.

 

[Along the bay]

How am I saying that? I am saying that Pacers aren't really the sort of train you'd expect to find on a heritage railway.

I'm sure I've seen pictures of a preserved 141 on a heritage line and last I heard they count as pacers .

 

[Bletchleyite]

stourbridge jn currently used by 139.

If the rubber band snaps I can see a 230 going on that. Might be a good testbed for a battery unit. Could possibly "cut and shut" a single-car unit without bog?

 

[Harpers Tate]

Weardale has (had?) a 141, I think.

As to the 142/3/4 - yes they were fairly dire, especially in their early years when they worked those secondary and tertiary routes which had enjoyed little track maintenance. The ride on jointed track on (often rotten) wooden sleepers was dismal. That said, honestly on long welded rail that is now almost everywhere, they aren't as terrible.

The thing is - I predict that we will still have short formed (either as an emergency, or even as a matter of routine) trains even after all the new stuff is in place, with the same woeful lack of capacity for contingency and predictable special event demand (music events, concerts, christmas markets and so on). It is my opinion that even a pacer is better than no train - and I deliberately include in that, a train which is so overloaded as to render passengers unable to board.

I think, therefore, that there is a case for retention for exactly these circumstances.

 

[Western Lord]

Perhaps a future as artifical reefs around our coastline?

Could be the answer to the Dawlish problem!