Oyster zone ticket appeal

[Ths591]

Hi,
I recently traveled from Crayford to Stevenage Station, I got a train to London Bridge then a Thameslink to Stevenage. I also travel from Dartford Station and the thameslink from there is covered by my oyster card so I assumed it would be the same so didn't buy a ticket, however when I got to Stevenage I couldn't get through the barrier with my oyster and was then given a fine. The lady who gave me the fine told me that I should be able to appeal it as I seemed genuine. She said that she would put my starting station as Finsbury Park so that the fine would be less. What should I say in my appeal?
Thanks.

 

[AlterEgo]

Please upload a copy of the notice with your name and address removed so we can see if it was issued properly (unlikely by the sounds of it!). Your only line of appeal will be a technical one, as it is not disputed that you had no valid ticket.

 

[Watershed]

Welcome to the forum.

We will need to see a picture of your Penalty Fare to give you the best possible advice, but one immediate ground of appeal that sticks out is that you didn't, in fact, board at Finsbury Park - you boarded at London Bridge. That may seem like a technicality but Penalty Fares have to be correctly issued - that is, from the station you actually travelled from, not some random other station. If the lady felt like being generous she could have sold you a new ticket rather than issuing you with a Penalty Fare.

Moreover from having travelled through both Finsbury Park and London Bridge regularly, I don't think the signage at either station is compliant with the Penalty Fares Regulations, which require a 'prominent' sign at every entrance to the station and 'at sufficient locations around the station' so that they are visible whenever changing trains. They must also contain specified wording which most of them do not contain. I can't talk for Dartford as I've only ever passed through there, but since Penalty Fares apply to the train you have just alighted (as opposed to your overall journey), the signage in place at Dartford doesn't particularly matter.

 

[Ths591]

Thanks both of you,
It was a busy day at Stevenage because of a large event happening at Knebworth, so there were lots of train staff about. Maybe why she gave me the fine instead of letting me buy a ticket.

 

[flitwickbeds]

Might be worth removing the QR code visible on this - don't know if it's a unique one for your penalty fare, or just takes you to a generic link. My phone doesn't seem to be able to interpret it but other software may be able to.

 

[Ths591]

Thanks, but it should be fine. I just tried using the qr code and it just goes to the main website where it asks you to put in the reference.

 

[Swedenorer]

By all means appeal on the technical grounds outlined above - it can't do any harm and stops the clock on the discount. I suspect based on a couple of decisions seen here recently however you will struggle as you clearly did not hold a valid ticket for the entire journey but the PF has given full credit for the travel undertaken in the Oyster validity area. As has been pointed out in other cases the issuer can only act on what they can prove - in this case the fact you did not hold a valid ticket on arrival and in this case the extent of the invalidity. The appeals people may well see the issue of signage at any station as a red herring since the core issue here is one of Oyster validity and you admit seemingly that you merely assumed Oyster validity to Stevenage. Download the Oyster journey record.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A couple of observations...

• Is it correct for the penalty fare, as per the PF document, to have been charged at what appears to be £100 plus the Anytime Day Single rate, rather than £100 plus the Off Peak Day Single rate (normally applicable for a journey made during the late morning)?

• Will the OP have incurred some incomplete journey charge with respect to their (PAYG) Oyster card?

 

[Watershed]

As @Mcr Warrior says, the Penalty Fare has been charged based on the Anytime Day Single from Finsbury Park to Stevenage. That gives grounds for appeal, since the correct fare to charge for an arrival at 11:30 would be the Off-Peak Day Single costing £9.60 (valid from 09:30 onwards).

It is up to you whether you want to raise the issue of the incorrect starting station in your first appeal. We have seen that previous appeals on the basis of an incorrectly recorded starting station being incorrectly refused on the ludicrous grounds that the passenger signed the notice (as if that makes a difference!).

As @Mcr Warrior says, a maximum fare will have been charged on the Oyster card due to the OP not touching out. The OP can complete the journey by speaking to TfL or going to their online account if they have registered their Oyster card. However I would suggest not doing so immediately, at least until the Penalty Fare has been appealed once.

 

[Tetchytyke]

ne immediate ground of appeal that sticks out is that you didn't, in fact, board at Finsbury Park - you boarded at London Bridge. That may seem like a technicality but Penalty Fares have to be correctly issued - that is, from the station you actually travelled from, not some random other station.

It actually depends on the situation and what the OP actually told the inspector:

9 (3)In paragraph (2) and (2A), “the boarding station” means—
(a)the station at which the person boarded the train; or
(b)where the station mentioned in sub-paragraph (a) is not known to the collector, the station at which the train last made a scheduled call.

I'm going to assume that the OP was on a train which went fast from Finsbury Park to Stevenage.

On that basis, I'd just stick to an appeal on a) the amount charged being incorrect and too high, and b) the signage. The main ground should be the fact the Penalty Fare is too high, emphasise that the mistake is in the TOC's favour and not yours. There are three appeal stages and you will likely need to use all three.

Being realistic, I don't expect your appeal to be upheld, even at the third stage, but if you don't ask you don't get. And they did charge you too much. But you can probably waste £50 of their time by taking it to the final stage. Just to note that you have 21 days to pay to benefit from the £50 discount. The clock stops whilst an appeal is with the appeals body but the clock continues ticking whilst it is with you.

 

[furlong]

Just quote 9(6) in your first simple appeal and focus on the incorrect fare. Avoid ANY reference to the boarding station. (You can add that to a later appeal if you wish to.)

9(6) In this regulation “the full single fare applicable” is to be determined by reference to—
...
(b) the day and time of the journey that person is making, has made or intends to make, as the case may be;

Say you arrived at Stevenage at <time> on a <day of week> so the "full single fare applicable" should have been 9.60 (off-peak day single) not 14.40 and consequently you are being overcharged.
Then the standard text about appeal under 16(3)(a) not charged in accordance with regulations and under 16(8) appeal must be allowed.

 

[Ths591]

Thanks for all the advice, this is the appeal that I have written

On Friday the 10th of July I traveled from Crayford to London Bridge. I tapped in with my oyster at Crayford at 10:07 (proof attached) and got the 10:09 train to Charring Cross via Sidcup and Lewisham and got off at London Bridge (scheduled at 10:44). I then went to WHSmith in the station and then waiting for a while in the main part of the station. A few minutes before the train I went up to the station platform and then boarded the train. The thameslink near me in Dartford is covered by my oyster so I assumed that a thameslink from London Bridge would be the same, so I did not tap out with my oyster when I reached London Bridge. When I was waiting in the main part of the station, on the platform and on the train itself I saw nothing to signify that I would need to have bought a ticket. Section 8 of The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 states that it is required for stations to have this information displayed and it was not. Section 8-(4) specifically includes that they should be inside the station for when you are changing trains.

Upon arrival at Stevenage I was unable to exit with my oyster and was directed to a member of staff who issued this fine. I only noticed afterwards that they had put my "boarding station" as Finsbury Park even though I had told them all the details of my journey. Section 9-(3) states that the "boarding station" is the station where I boarded the train, which was known to the collector.

In my fine I was given the penalty + ticket price, however I was given the ticket price of £14.40, the anytime day single rate, rather than the off-peak day single that I should have been given for my train that left at 11:01 on a Friday. Section 9-(6) of The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 specifies that I should be charged for the specific train that I took.

I attached my oyster record for the day.
Is there anything that any of you think I should change?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2026 ==

I have corrected a couple of spelling issues and the wording slightly but kept the points the same.

 

[SECR 65]

Sorry to be pedantic, but Charing Cross only has one R in, and Thameslink could do with a capital letter.

The contents of your letter looks generally good, but penalty fares are not my primary area of expertise so let's see what others think.

 

[Ths591]

Thanks, those two are bits that I corrected after I posted!

 

[furlong]

Then the standard text about appeal under 16(3)(a) not charged in accordance with regulations and under 16(8) appeal must be allowed.

You've missed out the most important bit! Saying that this is an appeal under 16(3)(a).

Also don't make the mistake of assuming the person processing your appeal is familiar with the regulations - quote the relevant words so they don't have to look them up (or more likely just not bother and deny the appeal).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2026 ==

London Bridge has long been one of the worst stations in the country for Penalty Fares signage. When I checked a couple of years ago, they still had one left from the old £20 regime in an out-of-the way location! One facing people leaving the station far away from any gateline. One hidden amongst other posters not on the normal route to any platform. That was it. On more recent visits I've seen no attempt to display any at the entrances to the platforms or for people changing trains as required.

 

[Ths591]

Thanks, I've added a bit at the beginning. I'll try to quote as much as I can but I'm starting to run out of space!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2026 ==

I am writing to appeal Penalty Fare XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX under section 3(a)

On Friday the 10th of July I travelled from Crayford to London Bridge. I tapped in with my oyster at Crayford at 10:07 (proof attached) and got the 10:09 train to Charing Cross via Sidcup and Lewisham and got off at London Bridge (scheduled at 10:44). I then went to WHSmith in the station and then waiting for a while in the main part of the station. A few minutes before the train I went up to the station platform and then boarded the train. The Thameslink near me in Dartford is covered by my oyster so I assumed that a Thameslink from London Bridge would be the same, so I did not tap out with my oyster and re-enter with a ticket when I reached London Bridge. When I was waiting in the main part of the station, on the platform and on the train itself I saw nothing to signify that I would need to have bought a ticket. Section 8 of The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 states that it is required for stations to have this information displayed and it was not. Section 8(4) states "... at least one notice is readily visible to passengers prior to boarding a train at the station, including passengers changing from one train to another train."

Upon arrival at Stevenage, I was unable to exit with my oyster and spoke to a member of staff who issued this fine. I only saw afterwards that they had put my "boarding station" as Finsbury Park though I had told them everything about my journey. Section 9(3) states that the "boarding station" is "the station at which the person boarded the train" if it is known to the collector, which it was.

The full single fare applicable of my fine was £14.40, the anytime day single rate, rather than the off-peak day single that I should have been given for my train that left at 11:01 on a Friday. Section 9(6) specifies "the day and time of the journey that person is making, has made or intends to make". My journey was the off-peak time so it should be charged as such.


That's it now, literally 0 characters remaining

 

[furlong]

That's it now, literally 0 characters remaining

There is no character limit! If there was, the appeal system would not be compliant with the regulations!

It lets you upload attachments so if there isn't space, people put their full appeal in there and just put a summary of the key argument in the limited space referencing the full document attached.