Oyster to Paper ticket journeys

[wildcard]

I was on a northbound Southern train yesterday . We had Just left Watford Junction and the guard was making his rounds . A passenger asked for a ticket from Watford to somewhere like Berkhamsted or Tring ( I didn’t quite catch the name ) . They said they had boarded at Harrow & Wealdstone using their Oyster card. The guard was happy to sell the paper ticket but insisted on first checking the Oyster with a handheld device. I think he said it was some systems requirement that made it necessary. Incidentally this is the first time I have witnessed a reader in use on any of the TOCs that serve Watford. My understanding is these devices can only check to see if there has been an incomplete touch in – nothing more, so no entry point or balance can be read. I can only think he felt that a no touch out Oyster journey validated the passengers story –and an Oyster maximum fare made the lack of a ticket beyond Watford less of an issue.

 

[matt_world2004]

I was on a northbound Southern train yesterday . We had Just left Watford Junction and the guard was making his rounds . A passenger asked for a ticket from Watford to somewhere like Berkhamsted or Tring ( I didn’t quite catch the name ) . They said they had boarded at Harrow & Wealdstone using their Oyster card. The guard was happy to sell the paper ticket but insisted on first checking the Oyster with a handheld device. I think he said it was some systems requirement that made it necessary. Incidentally this is the first time I have witnessed a reader in use on any of the TOCs that serve Watford. My understanding is these devices can only check to see if there has been an incomplete touch in – nothing more, so no entry point or balance can be read. I can only think he felt that a no touch out Oyster journey validated the passengers story –and an Oyster maximum fare made the lack of a ticket beyond Watford less of an issue.

The person on the train could have had a season ticket to watford junction on oyster. .however the guard should have advised him on pay as you go to touch out and buy a new ticket to wfj from there.

 

[Mojo]

lf a customer has a Travelcard then there is no need to get off the train to touch out and they can just buy a ticket from the edge of the validity of the Travelcard.

The handheld validators can view details about an Oyster card including when and whether it has been used to touch in/out; it is only CPCs (Contactless Payment Cards) for which that level of detail is not available, in any case CPCs are only available for Pay As You Go, which would have required the customer to touch out.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

lf a customer has a Travelcard then there is no need to get off the train to touch out and they can just buy a ticket from the edge of the validity of the Travelcard.

The handheld validators can view details about an Oyster card including when and whether it has been used to touch in/out; it is only CPCs (Contactless Payment Cards) for which that level of detail is not available, in any case CPCs are only available for Pay As You Go, which would have required the customer to touch out.

Does this apply even if the Travelcard is held on an Oyster?

 

[swt_passenger]

Does this apply even if the Travelcard is held on an Oyster?

Yes it does. Touching in and out is not enforced for Oyster travel card use.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Yes it does. Touching in and out is not enforced for Oyster travel card use.

Not enforced (as in, technically and legally required but not in practice) or not required at all? I wouldn't want to fall short on a technicality when doing this!

 

[swt_passenger]

AIUI, and based on numerous previous forum discussions, the TfL T&C have always required touch in and out on all Oyster use, whether PAYG or Travelcard, but TfL do not enforce the condition.

 

[wildcard]

I was on a northbound Southern train yesterday .

To add : I assumed the passenger had not left the train at Watford . Northbound usually there isn't enough time to touch out on the readers at the foot of the stairs and re-board the same train - I've tried ! . I could be wrong and maybe they arrived on an earlier train and did touch out . Alternatively they could have a season loaded to the Oyster - in which case no touch out needed . Either way they had no ticket for a journey beyond Watford. This didn't seem to be a big deal - which puzzled me. Can the reader see a season ticket ? If anything this makes it worse as it implies the passenger often traveled beyond Watford without a ticket.
The guard implied there was some software system link between the reader and the ticketing machine - so the machine wouldn't work unless the Oyster was scanned - that's a spoof isn't it ?

 

[paddington]

Incidentally this is the first time I have witnessed a reader in use on any of the TOCs that serve Watford.

Don't use LO much then?

I've had my Oyster inspected with a reader several times on London Midland (not yet travelled on WMT), though a long way back before they got readers, just presenting an Oyster was sufficient.

I could be wrong and maybe they arrived on an earlier train and did touch out.

If they touched out at WFJ, they should have then bought a ticket for the non-Oyster journey.

While I have seen passengers touching out but not going through the gates and turning around to go back to the platform, I assume they already have a ticket for the next part of their journey, though at some stations their behaviour seems to indicate that they are evading the correct fare (their destination probably has no barriers so they touch out ASAP after touching in to pay a lower fare, then travel ticketless through extra zones).

Can the reader see a season ticket ? If anything this makes it worse as it implies the passenger often traveled beyond Watford without a ticket.

I believe it does show travelcards. My understanding is that strictly speaking the passenger should have sought out the guard before arriving at Watford. An RPI could have caught them out.

The guard implied there was some software system link between the reader and the ticketing machine - so the machine wouldn't work unless the Oyster was scanned - that's a spoof isn't it ?

Seems dubious to me, perhaps the guard just meant that his company requires him to inspect Oysters before selling tickets where the passenger claims that part of their journey is covered by Oyster.

The guard's machine would surely need to work in a situation where the WFJ ticket office is closed, ticket machines are not working and barriers are open.

My question to anyone reading is - I thought the Oyster handheld readers record their current location, so that contactless cards can be charged with the correct maximum fares if the user has not touched in or out appropriately. How would this work if inspection of a CPC takes place outside the Oyster area?