oyster readers at clapham junction

[clapjunker]

Why can't there be Oyster readers at Platforms 1 and 2, where the Overground comes in? To touch out one’s Oyster card, before getting a train, involves the following if wishing to use lifts.
1. Lift down from the platform (1 and 2) to the nearest exit. One is then in the underpass.
2. Touch out with Oyster card.
3. Get back in with train ticket.
4. Lift back up to Platforms 1 and 2. Walk along platform to:
5. A different lift up to the footbridge. Walk along footbridge.
6. Lift down to the platform for your train.
If after coming back in, you stay in the underpass, there are no lifts to platforms, only steep stairs. I often have heavy luggage and need to use lifts.

Awful, especially in hot weather.

 

[joeykins82]

Probably because your combination of paper ticket in to CLJ followed by oyster PAYG from the same station is a minority case, and having the yellow in/out readers on the platform alongside the purple route validators would add a lot of confusion to those who use the station less frequently.

 

[maniacmartin]

This has been discussed on the forum a few times.

I believe the main reason is to prevent "doughnutting". This is where a passenger doing a long journey into London buys a short local ticket for the the start of the journey, then touches in near the end of the journey, not paying for the majority middle part of the journey. If there was a post, you could just touch in at Clapham Junction then out at the London Terminal, and avoid the correct fare very easily.

 

[swt_passenger]

Revenue protection.

Yellow readers on platforms are a great idea for anyone who doesn't want to pay the mainline TOC's fare. There are arguments for and against this, but that's the main reason.

Existing Oyster validators were removed from platforms at places such as London Bridge once PAYG was extended to NR as well.

 

[Matt E Raffles]

... having the yellow in/out readers on the platform alongside the purple route validators would add a lot of confusion to those who use the station less frequently.

There aren't, at present, pink route validators at Clapham Junction.

The yellow entry/exit validators that were on some of the platforms have been progressively removed although they are still present on platform 17 (as far from the London Overground platforms as they could be!). As suggested by maniacmartin and swt_passenger, fraud prevention is the main justification for the removal of entry/exit validators within the gated area.

 

[clapjunker]

What are purple route validators? Never seen one.
And I use this route (change from national rail to London overground, and from overground to national rail on the way back) every time I go to London, once a week or fortnight at the moment. If it was easier to validate the Oystercard, I'm sure more people would do it. The overground from Clapham is new, and it will take time for people to get used to the convenience of this (if you can be fished to validate your Oyster card as described).
Fare dodging: there are ticket inspectors on trains. They should pick up people who are 'doughnutting'.
I suspect another reason for not having Oyster readers on those platforms is so that people like me can be charged penalty fares when they do not touch out or in.

 

[transmanche]

What are purple route validators? Never seen one.

Well actually they're pink. And you'll find them at certain interchange stations - touching your card on them 'proves' that you have used a certain route and thus you may be charged a lower fare. Full details on the TfL website.


Gunnersbury Underground station by bowroaduk, on Flickr


Think pink! by Martin Deutsch, on Flickr

 

[bb21]

And I use this route (change from national rail to London overground, and from overground to national rail on the way back) every time I go to London, once a week or fortnight at the moment. If it was easier to validate the Oystercard, I'm sure more people would do it.

Inconvenience is not a valid excuse not to touch in/out if using Oyster PAYG. There are lifts available if you have heavy luggage, and as you need to change trains at Clapham Junction, which involves a change of platform anyway, unless you are changing from the WLL to the SLL, I struggle to see how much more inconvenient it is to touch out/re-enter with a paper ticket, or vice versa. (It is a bit of a hassle, but is it really such a big deal?)

The overground from Clapham is new, and it will take time for people to get used to the convenience of this (if you can be fished to validate your Oyster card as described).

Laziness is not an excuse.

Fare dodging: there are ticket inspectors on trains. They should pick up people who are 'doughnutting'.

They should. I agree with you on this. However many of the trains in the South East are DOO (driver-only operation) and do not have guards checking tickets. There should probably be better presence of RPIs however that is for another topic.

I suspect another reason for not having Oyster readers on those platforms is so that people like me can be charged penalty fares when they do not touch out or in.

If you don't touch in, and are using PAYG, then you are right to get a Penalty Fare.

 

[clapjunker]

I've got the answer: the man in an information booth at Platform 1/2 could have an Oyster validating machine inside his booth and validate your Oyster card once he has checked your ticket. He seems to have nothing else to do.

Laziness: I am 63 and have health problems which make a long walk with heavy luggage,even with 3 lifts, particularly annoying. It isn't laziness.

 

[bb21]

If you have difficulties moving around with your luggage then it might be better for you to request travel assistance at the station.

 

[OwlMan]

It is your choice to split the fare at Clapham Junction and change from paper tickets to oyster PAYG.
Is there somewhere else that you can split that might be easier?
How much do you save by splitting? there may an even cheaper way of making your journey.

Peter

 

[island]

AFAIK if you touch a pink validator when you don't have an active journey, it starts a journey as though you had touched a yellow validator.

 

[clapjunker]

I don't change from train to Oyster at CJ to save money, but because the Overground goes straight to Hackney, without my having to go to central London at all. That's what it was supposed to do when it was linked up to CJ, wasn't it?

Problems not bad enough to ask for assistance, I can walk a long way and use three lifts (or go all the way to Platform 17 from 1, using only two lifts), but it's a strain and annoying, because the Overground is so brilliant, and the interchange is so badly thought out.

 

[OwlMan]

I don't change from train to Oyster at CJ to save money, but because the Overground goes straight to Hackney, without my having to go to central London at all. That's what it was supposed to do when it was linked up to CJ, wasn't it?

Where are you travelling from?

 

[clapjunker]

Barnham in Sussex.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
'If you don't touch in, and are using PAYG, then you are right to get a Penalty Fare.' But there is nothing to tell you where to touch in/out, or even that you need to, and the signage is so bad it is hard even to find the exit, having arrived on a train or the Overground. On Plats 1 and 2 there is a sign pointing upwards saying 'Grant Road exit' but if you take the lift up, you just get to the footbridge. I'm suggesting it is made deliberately confusing so penalty fares can be charged. Or at least, that this is a welcome spin-off of making it so hard for people.

 

[transmanche]

But there is nothing to tell you where to touch in/out, or even that you need to

Hang on... are you saying that there's not enough publicity reminding you to always touch out? Or do you want separate signage specifically for people who are 'split ticketing' and changing from Oyster PAYG to paper tickets at Clapham Junction.

 

[maniacmartin]

There are through tickets from Barnham to all Hackney stations. Of course they are more expensive than splitting onto Oyster, because they include validity on the Underground through central London.

I think Clapham Junction has good signage, and whichever way you go from any platform, you will end up at an exit that has a staffed gateline with Oyster readers and TVMs at the very least. The Overground platform 1-2 even has a manned information desk on the platform itself

 

[clapjunker]

Good signage - what about the signs that say 'Platforms 2-8' when they actually lead to Platform 1 as well?

Man in information desk on Platform 1 - not very helpful. He just says go to the exit. Does not say which of the two lifts to use or where they are (and they are sometimes broken). It would be far more helpful if he could validate your Oyster card.

Underground option: important stations on the Underground don't have lifts. It is usually crowded and hot, while the Overground is positively pleasant to use. I would go by Oyster/Overground even if it cost more than the underground.