mkeallison
Member
I did. I told them it got confiscated due to my cousin using it and he said "no problem".
2) Yes, she knows all about it.
3) Finally, I'm never giving anyone my oyster card ever again. That was the first and last time
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Oyster Photocard possibly withdrawn
- Thread starter mkeallison
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I did. I told them it got confiscated due to my cousin using it and he said "no problem".
2) Yes, she knows all about it.
3) Finally, I'm never giving anyone my oyster card ever again. That was the first and last time
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RailUK Forums
If this goes any further you really need to rack your memory very carefully to determine whether you've given your Oyster card or it was taken. You've flip-flopped from one to the other twice during this thread and it does make a difference.
mkeallison
Member
I hope it doesn't. I don't think I've flip-flopped. For all intents and purposes I gave it to him by letting him use it after he took it from my wallet.
MyFriendMary
Member
- Joined
- 7 Feb 2014
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- 108
So it was in your wallet.
He took it.
You then were like, "Yeah you can use that cus'"
He took it.
You then were like, "Yeah you can use that cus'"
I think you have. We initially had..
then we had....
Regardless of all of the explanations in between (which have been contradictory at best), you have flip flopped. Even more so when you consider the opening post pointed out you had given it to him, then you followed this by asking if lying (what if I told them he took it?) would help you get off. This potential lie then seemed to morph into your truth as the thread has gone on.
No wonder people are confused.
mkeallison
Member
Ah yeah I can see how people can be confused. None of the explanations are mutually exclusive.
He asked for my oyster card. I said no. We argued for a while. I put in my headphones and started ignoring him. He pulled my oyster out and,tossed,my wallet on me. I didn't go after him because I was tired of arguing and had work to do (which means,I effectively lent it to him at that point). So effectively, He took it without permission and I lent it to him in effect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That was supposed to be in reply to Andrewlongs post asking of I'd take steps to protect my,oyster in future.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Besides, my third post clarified it I think.
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PermitToTravel
Established Member
IANAL but I don't think that failure to resist constitutes consent. (failure to object may do, I'm not sure)
True, but how about failure to report the "theft". Could this be construed as tacit consent after the fact?
Probably not, but it has occasionally been reported in cases of use of another's ticket that a TOC has threatened to prosecute the legitimate ticket holder for transferring a ticket unless the legitimate ticket holder reported the theft of the ticket to the police.
Leaving aside that theft requires an intent to permanently deprive another person of the item, I think it is more aimed at trying to get a person to admit that they gave the ticket rather than it being taken.
Leaving aside that theft requires an intent to permanently deprive another person of the item, I think it is more aimed at trying to get a person to admit that they gave the ticket rather than it being taken.
PermitToTravel
Established Member
Which is a nonsense, as, as you rightly state, this isn't theft.
Is there an offence similar to Taking Without Owner's Consent for things other than motor vehicles, e.g. tickets?
Not as far as I'm aware of. TWOC as an offence (TADA or taking and driving away in Scotland) came in specifically to deal with joyriding and to be able to prosecute passengers in those circumstances.
At the risk of going further off-topic, the courts have ruled that taking a (sports) ticket with the intent to return it after the match is sufficient to show intent to permanently deprive, as its value will have been lost before it's returned. But that doesn't seem to apply here.
At the risk of going further off-topic, the courts have ruled that taking a (sports) ticket with the intent to return it after the match is sufficient to show intent to permanently deprive, as its value will have been lost before it's returned. But that doesn't seem to apply here.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
As my earlier post on this thread noted, the most likely offence to succeed in any prosecution against the OP would be "aiding and abetting" the fraudulent use of the ticket.
Another possibility would be the common law offence of conspiracy to defraud though in this case I wouldn't expect an attempt to prosecute "conspiracy" would be proportionate. Similarly, there is the concept of being an "accessory" to a fraud.
[In Scotland, there is a near equivalent of "aiding and abetting" in the common law of Scotland known as "art and part" which extends to even the most minor or removed involvement in the act. There is no Scots equivalent of being an "accessory" after the fact (of a crime).].
No. As stated, the offence here is a fraud (whether in common law or statute) and not a theft.
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mkeallison
Member
Going on the train and spending money on my oyster without permission could be a form of theft. Especially when I have only a little money and,my,travel relies on having that,exact amount of money(as well as paying,for a replacement). I would say that is splitting hairs but it seems akin to taking money from someone's wallet and,then returning the wallet back to them after
The point is are you willing to report your mate to the police for theft?
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Which would be doomed to fail.
mkeallison
Member
The answer is no because that is petty and irrelevant. And this has been resolved now
I'm not sure I would be so hasty in assuming that.
I suspect that in several weeks time both he and you will receive letters....
I agree, as I already said above. A request by some TOCs to do so in the past has been a way of flushing out an admission by the ticket holder that the ticket was in fact transferred with his consent.
mkeallison
Member
I hope not. I spoke with the TFL agent and they assured me that nothing would happen. Are they really going to charge two minors? One considerably younger...
mkeallison
Member
That could be easily cleared up I guess.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Actually, thinking of it now. I agree with you. There's no way I'd get off that easy
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