Oyster payg & "reasonable routes" hypothetical question

[DJL]

My question is in 2 parts.

First - If I had a pre purchased paper ticket valid for travel between Blackfriars and St Mary Cray but service from Blackfriars was completely suspended, would a walk to Waterloo East, train to Orpington, then bus to St Mary Cray become a reasonable route?

Second - how do reasonable routes work with oyster payg?
Assuming the above example is classed as a reasonable route how would you go about getting that journey at the price of a BFR-SMY oyster payg (or cash paper walk up) single?

 

[MikeWh]

First - If I had a pre purchased paper ticket valid for travel between Blackfriars and St Mary Cray but service from Blackfriars was completely suspended, would a walk to Waterloo East, train to Orpington, then bus to St Mary Cray become a reasonable route?

Quite possibly, but it would be up to Southeastern to decide at the time. I'm not sure how likely the complete service between Blackfriars and St Mary Cray would be suspended though, unless maybe there was a major problem in the Bromley area.

Second - how do reasonable routes work with oyster payg?
Assuming the above example is classed as a reasonable route how would you go about getting that journey at the price of a BFR-SMY oyster payg (or cash paper walk up) single?

Tricky. Blackfriars to St Mary Cray is the same Oyster fare as Waterloo East to Orpington, but the bus fare would be on top. If there was major disruption then Southeastern could liaise with TfL to process refunds, or they may just invite you to contact their customer services direct. I don't think there is a hard and fast rule in this sort of situation.

 

[swt_passenger]

Wouldn't a paper ticket 'from Blackfriars' be printed as from London Terminals anyway, hence normally valid at Waterloo East?

 

[bb21]

Yes, it would

 

[DJL]

Wouldn't a paper ticket 'from Blackfriars' be printed as from London Terminals anyway, hence normally valid at Waterloo East?

quite possibly - but it wouldn't be valid at Orpington, nor for the bus ride back to SMY

 

[yorkie]

Unless ticket acceptance was in place.

Interesting issue is that a passenger showing a paper rail ticket would be accepted, if ticket acceptance was in place, but would a passenger who was making a rail journey by Oyster be able to simply show the Oyster card with an explanation they were making a rail journey, or would they have to tap and request a refund? For £1.40 hardly anyone is going to want to faff about chasing a refund, as they don't make it easy to do.

Oyster PAYG users shouldn't be penalised. And any penalising that does occur is very good evidence for those of us who wish for paper tickets to remain in existence.

That could change if you could simply click a button online...

 

[DJL]

Quite possibly, but it would be up to Southeastern to decide at the time. I'm not sure how likely the complete service between Blackfriars and St Mary Cray would be suspended though, unless maybe there was a major problem in the Bromley area.



Tricky. Blackfriars to St Mary Cray is the same Oyster fare as Waterloo East to Orpington, but the bus fare would be on top. If there was major disruption then Southeastern could liaise with TfL to process refunds, or they may just invite you to contact their customer services direct. I don't think there is a hard and fast rule in this sort of situation.

If there was an issue at Blackfriars itself meaning that nothing is moving then the only way to get to SMY would be to go to Elephant & Castle (which would likely also be suspended) or Victoria.

Travelling via Waterloo East & Orpington would definitely be quicker than both of these options.

(There might be other options that require a lot of changes, not to mention a good knowledge of the network! But I'd venture a guess that any such route is less likely to be considered "reasonable")


I guess the definition of "reasonable" really depends on what the problem is, where it is, and how long before it will be fixed.

So it sounds like it would be a case of work it out on the day.

TL to St Pancras, HS1 to Ashford/Rochester, SE back to SMY might get classed as valid if the SEML collapsed on top of the CML at Chislehurst and every single bus and taxi in the country died.

(Let's hope that never happens!)

 

[MikeWh]

If there was an issue at Blackfriars itself meaning that nothing is moving then the only way to get to SMY would be to go to Elephant & Castle (which would likely also be suspended) or Victoria.

Travelling via Waterloo East & Orpington would definitely be quicker than both of these options.

(There might be other options that require a lot of changes, not to mention a good knowledge of the network! But I'd venture a guess that any such route is less likely to be considered "reasonable")


I guess the definition of "reasonable" really depends on what the problem is, where it is, and how long before it will be fixed.

So it sounds like it would be a case of work it out on the day.

TL to St Pancras, HS1 to Ashford/Rochester, SE back to SMY might get classed as valid if the SEML collapsed on top of the CML at Chislehurst and every single bus and taxi in the country died.

(Let's hope that never happens!)

Well, take your scenario of nothing moving at Blackfriars. I would think Waterloo East - Grove Park - Bromley North (walk) Bromley South - St Mary Cray would be a reasonable alternative. Unless you stopped off in the shopping centre and took longer than 30 minutes to get between the Bromley stations, the Oyster system would treat that as one journey and charge the same.

Oh, if nothing is moving at Blackfriars, how do you get TL to St Pancras?

 

[DJL]

Oh, if nothing is moving at Blackfriars, how do you get TL to St Pancras?

Sorry I wasn't clear - that was a separate example.


Good point about walking through Bromley. I hadn't considered that move.

Personally I would argue that WAE->Orp->bus is more reasonable since it involves fewer connections and is quicker.

I don't just mean more reasonable on the inconvenienced passenger I also mean on the transport network.
Although I recognise that it requires cooperation between SE and TFL which your option doesn't.

I've also caught a bus from Grove Park to SMY before now (when I had my 1-6 travel card). Actually thinking about it this option might work out cheaper anyway <heads off to tfl website>
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Yes, it is cheaper.

Perhaps I should make that my new backup route then