Oyster PAYG - overcharge advice needed

[daniel78]

Today I've made a return journey from Enfield to West Ham using Oyster pay as you go. My card has been charged a total of £10.80 for the day's activity. I'd be grateful for any help in understanding where I've been overcharged.

Outward journey
I touched in at Bush Hill Park, starting balance £12.90
I travelled by Greater Anglia train to Seven Sisters, then changed to Victoria Line, I didn't touch any validator.
I travelled on the Victoria Line to Tottenham Hale. At the top of the escalator I touched out to get through the barriers.
I made my way to the Greater Anglia platforms, there were no further barriers so I was unsure if I needed to touch in again. I went back and asked a member of London Underground staff. He asked where I was going, I said West Ham via Stratford. He told me not to touch in again, and it should register as a completed journey at West Ham.
I travelled to Stratford by Greater Anglia train.
I made my way to the DLR and travelled to West Ham.
I touched out at West Ham, I read on the machine that I had been charged £4.60 for the journey.


Return journey
I travelled from West Ham to Stratford on DLR.
I travelled from Stratford to Liverpool St on the Central Line.
I travelled from Liverpool St to Southbury by Greater Anglia train.
I touched out at Southbury, I was charged £4.10 for the journey, and my total was now £2.10.


I'd be grateful if anyone can tell me how the total charge has come about. I've come home and seen on the TFL website that there are pink readers at Stratford, so I can see I should have touched one of those. I didn't see any as I made my way through a long tunnel to the main concourse, then out to the DLR platform. Still I can't see how I've been charged more than the £8.50 daily cap, even two journeys through zone 1 should total £8.20.

 

[yorkie]

Maximum fares do not count towards the cap.

It sounds like you travelled from Tottenham Hale to West Ham while touched out. Lucky you did not encounter an RPI!

There will be Oyster readers enabling you to touch in at Tottenham Hale, I am surprised you were advised not to touch in there!

If there are barriers to exit a LU station and you touch out, then ensure you touch back in when entering National Rail.

 

[Brucey]

Yorkie is correct. Check your online journey history in a few days and it will show something like this:

Bush Hill Park - Tottenham Hale £1.80
?? - West Ham [Incomplete Journey] £4.60
West Ham - Southbury £4.10

This is still 30p short of what your were charged.

You must always be touched in when travelling, i.e. if you've touched out, you must then touch in again. Journeys will be combined where appropriate (and sometimes where not appropriate).

 

[MikeWh]

Yorkie is correct. Check your online journey history in a few days and it will show something like this:

Bush Hill Park - Tottenham Hale £1.80
?? - West Ham [Incomplete Journey] £4.60
West Ham - Southbury £4.10

This is still 30p short of what your were charged.

You must always be touched in when travelling, i.e. if you've touched out, you must then touch in again. Journeys will be combined where appropriate (and sometimes where not appropriate).

The 30p is easy, but it does suggest a different problem to the one that has been assumed. Bush Hill Park to Tottenham Hale LU is £1.80 while Bush Hill Park to Tottenham Hale NR is £2.10. This suggests that you walked through the LU gates and touched out on the NR validators. I'd be very interested to see an extract of your journey history when you can view it.

 

[Brucey]

That is very interesting actually. Tottenham Hale LU is completely gated, so I assume the OP must have touched out on a reader within the LU station in order to leave.

 

[34D]

If there are barriers to exit a LU station and you touch out, then ensure you touch back in when entering National Rail.

Is this right? I thought the system could recognise such journeys?

 

[Mike395]

Is this right? I thought the system could recognise such journeys?

It can, due to the 'continuation exit' system - however you still risk being incorrectly charged (or even technically prosecuted, although in my experience TFL - and to a lesser extent TOC - RPIs are lenient in this situation)

 

[yorkie]

Is this right? I thought the system could recognise such journeys?

If - and only if - the readers are actually set as continuation exits. That was not the case in the OPs situation, however there are other threads discussing that particular issue.

These are not at gatelines and are standalone readers. You will see signs saying things like "oyster readers touch here" but if you do touch on one, then an RPI who is not particularly knowledgeable may not understand what is going on and may incorrectly believe you are touched out and attempt to issue a Penalty Fare. If you then touch out correctly, you will be charged the correct fare and it should be easy to get the PF quashed (and some serious questions asked of the TOC who charged the PF).

 

[daniel78]

The 30p is easy, but it does suggest a different problem to the one that has been assumed. Bush Hill Park to Tottenham Hale LU is £1.80 while Bush Hill Park to Tottenham Hale NR is £2.10. This suggests that you walked through the LU gates and touched out on the NR validators. I'd be very interested to see an extract of your journey history when you can view it.

No, I definitely touched out at the Underground barriers, you have to do that to leave. When I crossed to the NR station I saw the standalone readers, then went back to check what I should do.

EDIT: My card isn't registered, but I'll try to get a snap of the on-screen history when I'm next at a station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If - and only if - the readers are actually set as continuation exits. That was not the case in the OPs situation, however there are other threads discussing that particular issue.

These are not at gatelines and are standalone readers. You will see signs saying things like "oyster readers touch here" but if you do touch on one, then an RPI who is not particularly knowledgeable may not understand what is going on and may incorrectly believe you are touched out and attempt to issue a Penalty Fare. If you then touch out correctly, you will be charged the correct fare and it should be easy to get the PF quashed (and some serious questions asked of the TOC who charged the PF).

I was aware of the continuation exit system as it is in use next door at Seven Sisters (a station I use far more frequently than Tottenham Hale). I also realised I'd have to touch somewhere at Tottenham Hale so the system would know I'd changed there (taking this route was a plan to save a couple of quid!)

I'm actually really ticked off that I was mis-advised here. There must be countless people transferring trains the way I was every day, this ought to be a really simple query that staff surely come up against every day. I bumped into some friends on the train at Tottenham Hale too, how embarrassing would that have been if I had got a penalty fare? Is there any way I can appeal for my balance to be adjusted? Surely the times I touched the Oyster card should make it obvious the journey I was making.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

 

[yorkie]

EDIT: My card isn't registered, but I'll try to get a snap of the on-screen history when I'm next at a station.

Neither is mine, but you can still associate the card with an online account on the TfL website, to obtain your journey history, as I have done. It will also be protected in the event of loss/theft.

Unfortunately you will not be able to obtain your previous journey history but I would advise you to do this so you can get a record of future journeys.

Is there any way I can appeal for my balance to be adjusted? Surely the times I touched the Oyster card should make it obvious the journey I was making..

Quite possibly; contact the Oyster Helpline. Let us know how you get on.