Oyster PAYG and splitting tickets

[Bill Badger]

I’ve been looking at the cost of travelling to London, once PAYG Oyster is available of SWT.

From Farnborough Main a Super Off Peak Day Travelcard will be £18.40.
A Super Off Peak Day Return Farnborough to Surbiton will be £9.00
And an Off Peak Adult Travelcard will be £7.50

This therefore means it looks like I can save £1.90 by splitting at Surbiton; does anyone knows how this will work in practice? Am I able to buy a return to Surbiton at Farnborough, swipe in on one of the new card readers and then travel all the way to Waterloo, so long as I catch a train that stops at Surbiton; or is it more complicated than this?.......

 

[dan_atki]

A Super Off Peak Day Return Farnborough to Surbiton will be £9.00
And an Off Peak Adult Travelcard will be £7.50

This therefore means it looks like I can save £1.90 by splitting at Surbiton; does anyone knows how this will work in practice?

These are both paper tickets* so provided the train stops at Surbiton then using this combination is valid (no swiping on any reader involved!).

*The adult off peak cap on Oyster is the same price as the equivalent paper travelcard alternative.

To answer your question in a general sense with splitting, I suspect that such readers will only be placed by the gatelines at stations that didn't previously part accept Oyster (e.g. Clapham Junction has readers on p2/16/17 specifically for the services on those platforms to save you going to the barriers).

It could be for this very reason that the off peak caps are the same price as the paper travelcard now - splitting to save some money would require you to get off the train, go upstairs to the barrier, go back downstairs, and get the next service (unless you are extremely quick and manage to get the same train!).

 

[Bill Badger]

These are both paper tickets* so provided the train stops at Surbiton then using this combination is valid (no swiping on any reader involved!).

Thanks for the explanation most of which I understand!

However, if I don't swipe in, how can the Oyster system know I'm using my PAYG Oystercard after Surbiton?

 

[John @ home]

if I don't swipe in, how can the Oyster system know I'm using my PAYG Oystercard after Surbiton?

To avoid the need to get off the train at Surbiton and swipe in, if I were using this combination of tickets I would buy a paper Surbiton - London Zones 1-6 Travelcard at Farnborough.

If you don't get off the train at Surbiton, and then use Oyster PAYG, I think the system will charge the maximum cash fare for the unresolved journey when you touch out without having previously touched in.

 

[EM2]

The Adult Travelcard isn't PAYG, so there's no need to swipe in or out because as Dan explained, it's a separate paper ticket.

 

[barrykas]

If you don't get off the train at Surbiton, and then use Oyster PAYG, I think the system will charge the maximum cash fare for the unresolved journey when you touch out without having previously touched in.

If the OP didn't "touch in" at Surbiton, and all they had is a ticket from Farnborough to Surbiton and a PAYG Oyster, they'd be liable to a Penalty Fare if there was a check between Surbiton and Waterloo, AND get a "maximum exit charge" deducted on arrival at Waterloo (which wouldn't count towards any cap).

Cheers,

Barry

 

[Bill Badger]

The Adult Travelcard isn't PAYG, so there's no need to swipe in or out because as Dan explained, it's a separate paper ticket.

But from January you can use Oyster PAYG with the associated price capping on SWT, hence the query.

If the OP didn't "touch in" at Surbiton, and all they had is a ticket from Farnborough to Surbiton and a PAYG Oyster, they'd be liable to a Penalty Fare if there was a check between Surbiton and Waterloo, AND get a "maximum exit charge" deducted on arrival at Waterloo (which wouldn't count towards any cap).

Cheers,

Barry

Which was why I asked the question in the first place as to whether I should (and indeed am able) to swipe in at Farnborough.

I'm appreciate I could just buy the paper ticket at Farnborough, which is probably what I'll end up doing, but would like to use the flexibility of just swiping with my PAYG if this was possible.

 

[dan_atki]

Which was why I asked the question in the first place as to whether I should (and indeed am able) to swipe in at Farnborough.

I'm appreciate I could just buy the paper ticket at Farnborough, which is probably what I'll end up doing, but would like to use the flexibility of just swiping with my PAYG if this was possible.

Ah, now you've got me wondering whether the new SWT ITSO readers at most (every?) stations on their network are compatible with Oyster, particularly those outside of the zones, such as Farnborough. I'd be intrigued to find out what is displayed if you touched your Oyster card on the machine at Farnborough!

To be completely honest, there would be no extra flexibility of using the Oyster PAYG apart from the fact it is one less ticket to buy at the start of your journey. Indeed, the paper travelcard is a lot less hassle in this respect as then you don't have to worry about touching in and out (and shaking it all about) every time you start and end a journey in the zones - indeed with Oyster, on the way back you'd have to go through the whole charade at Surbiton again...

 

[jon0844]

I've never seen anyone say a paper ticket is easier than using an Oyster/smartcard! It's one thing to be able to wave a paper ticket at someone I suppose (here it's quicker than waiting for a person to wave their wand over a NFC card) but if you have to put it through a gate, it's a right PITA!

 

[John @ home]

I've never seen anyone say a paper ticket is easier than using an Oyster/smartcard!

It is if you have to get off a train, swipe your Oyster/smartcard, then wait for the next one. The alternative is to remain seated and use a paper ticket.

 

[Helvellyn]

You can only use Oyster PAYG in the London Fares Zones, i.e. the Travelcard area. PAYG works by touching in and out at the destination and origin station, and it then works out the applicable point to point fare (based on the number of zones travelled, and time of day).

You cannot use PAYG in combination with a paper ticket. It can be used in combination with an Oyster Travelcard to travel beyond its validity, but staying in the Fares Zones. E.g. Z1-4 Travelcard, travel to Zone 6 with PAYG.

ITSO works differently from Oyster PAYG, in that ITSO is an electronic ticket in place of your paper one.

You won't see ITSO in the capital for a while yet as the Government has not funded the upgrading of the Oyster system yet, so I've heard.

 

[jon0844]

It is if you have to get off a train, swipe your Oyster/smartcard, then wait for the next one. The alternative is to remain seated and use a paper ticket.

Yes, but it's a prepay card we're talking about. You can't have a prepay paper ticket, so I guess the point is needing to buy a ticket in advance because there's no way to validate the card on the train (or outside the zones).

This is something that should be looked at, perhaps with a separate validator machine at stations outside Z6 - at least at the stations served by any TOC that goes into Z1-6 (InterCity trains excepted). As long as the readers are ITSO compliant, they'll presumably be usable if/when we get a nationwide smartcard system.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I've never seen anyone say a paper ticket is easier than using an Oyster/smartcard!

If the Oystercard stops working - you can show someone what is printed on a paper ticket. Doesn't work with Oyster.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It could be for this very reason that the off peak caps are the same price as the paper travelcard now

More a case of before an off-peak cap wasn't a Travelcard, because you couldn't use it on National Rail. But now you can use it, a cap is the same thing.

 

[Bill Badger]

You can only use Oyster PAYG in the London Fares Zones, i.e. the Travelcard area. PAYG works by touching in and out at the destination and origin station, and it then works out the applicable point to point fare (based on the number of zones travelled, and time of day).

You cannot use PAYG in combination with a paper ticket. It can be used in combination with an Oyster Travelcard to travel beyond its validity, but staying in the Fares Zones. E.g. Z1-4 Travelcard, travel to Zone 6 with PAYG.

ITSO works differently from Oyster PAYG, in that ITSO is an electronic ticket in place of your paper one.

You won't see ITSO in the capital for a while yet as the Government has not funded the upgrading of the Oyster system yet, so I've heard.

Thanks for the clear explanation, I understand now.

I had somewhat naively assumed that the card readers on SWT stations were related to the Oyster role out. Are SWT planning their own electronic ticketing system then?

 

[dan_atki]

Yes, but it's a prepay card we're talking about. You can't have a prepay paper ticket, so I guess the point is needing to buy a ticket in advance because there's no way to validate the card on the train (or outside the zones).

I don't see how this is really an argument. You cannot buy/top-up/use an Oyster outside of the zones (or indeed buy or top-up at most NR stations within the zones... - unless this changed?).

So if you're commencing a journey from outside the zones and wish to use Oyster in the zones then you must check and top-up the time before. I can see many people getting caught out in the first few months, arriving at say Surbiton with a balance of less than £1, thinking they can top-up...

As I said, such a card doesn't really help with splitting tickets either. Acceptance of Oyster on NR really is solely for the benefit of Londoners (who 99% of the time remain in the zones and don't have to worry about such points as we mention here), more than anything else. As I said, if you wish to split tickets and are coming from outside the zones, paper tickets are a lot less hassle to think about and are no more expensive.

There is also no 'pre-pay' issue to think about. Yes, you can buy the ticket in advance or when you travel. Granted, that means a ticket office queue to think about, but when you are buying another ticket anyway...

And if you're doing a fair bit of travelling around without exiting the system, then Oyster really isn't going to be that friendly to you when you take 8 hours to do Charing Cross to Embankment. Of course, the obvious remedy here is to touch out and in again every so often but that is an inconvenience you don't have with paper tickets.

More a case of before an off-peak cap wasn't a Travelcard, because you couldn't use it on National Rail. But now you can use it, a cap is the same thing.

True, and I suspect it is a combination of factors. I don't believe a 50p saving previously equated to the use of unlimited National Rail journeys within the zones. One of the points with Oyster was it is also meant to be cheaper... Although, as you said, now it is effectively an electronic travelcard it may be an agreement with ATOC to have the fares the same.

I had somewhat naively assumed that the card readers on SWT stations were related to the Oyster role out. Are SWT planning their own electronic ticketing system then?

Yes, it has been in the pipeline for a while now, and I believe it is a franchise commitment. A trial took place earlier this year for commuters on the Staines to Windsor and Eton Riverside branch. The aim is to trial in more places before a systemwide roll-out meaning they can be a lot more flexible with tickets than previously - e.g. 5 in 7 day seasons (cheaper than 7 day) I think was one possibility mentioned.

 

[jon0844]

If the Oystercard stops working - you can show someone what is printed on a paper ticket. Doesn't work with Oyster.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I get a record card that I can show people with my Oyster season. I can also quite happily combine a paper ticket with my Oyster card (and have done for years), because it isn't prepay.

The only real change is that prepay users can now travel within Z1-6 and pay on their Oyster prepay card. Oyster season ticket holders have been using their Oyster cards for years and probably wonder what all the fuss is about!

 

[Surreytraveller]

But you don't get record cards with pay as you go, so you can't show someone your cap or combine it with paper tickets.

If Oyster was really clever, it would have weekly, monthly and annual caps as well, to save having to buy season tickets!

 

[jon0844]

I certainly agree about the capping idea for weekly/monthly/annual.

You can also begin to offer loyalty discounts over longer periods of time too, such as two years, five years, ten years. Or other benefits.

But, at the same time they don't HAVE to offer anything so why would they? It does seem as if Oyster can make quite a lot of money out of the mistakes of users.