Oyster oddity.

[londonbridge]

Can't believe I've only just found these forums! Anyway,I had a situation occur a couple of weeks ago,it's over and done with now but I can't figure out how part of it occurred. It's not important,just more of an oddity really.

Basically I started the day with £8.00 on my payg card and made two bus journeys in the morning,leaving £5.60. In the evening I was meeting a friend to go to the o2. She'd never been to the o2 before and isn't confident using trains on her own,so I arranged to meet her at Sutton station near her work. I touched in at Wallington and got the train to Sutton,then waited inside the ticket barriers without touching out until she arrived. We then got a train to London Bridge. I was conscious of the time limit to complete the journey but thought I'd be okay. When we got to London Bridge I went to touch out and my card wouldn't work the barrier and gave the seek assistance message. When I checked with the ticket clerk my balance was -40p. I'd been charged £6.00 as I'd gone over the time limit. Remember I hadn't touched out whilst waiting for her at Sutton so the system had read it as a single journey from Wallington to London Bridge. The ticket clerk opened the gate to let me out. Feeling a little annoyed with myself I put another £10 on my card and my balance was shown as £9.60. We then got the underground from London Bridge to North Greenwich and it definitely deducted the fare.

After the concert we went back to North Greenwich and headed back to London Bridge. When I touched out at LB my balance was showing as £10.50! We got a train back to Sutton where I dropped her off then got a bus back to Wallington. No more money was deducted and my balance remained at £10.50.

Under normal circumstances my spending would have been capped at £7.50 which would have left my card balance at 50p. Add on the £10 that I topped up and that makes the £10.50 balance that I ended the day with. But since I'd been charged the £6.00 penalty fare which doesn't count towards the daily price cap,and my balance was at one point -40p,and then £9.60 after I'd topped up with the £10,how did it end up at £10.50??

 

[MikeWh]

Got it!

You've experienced a very lucky break.

You took just too long to get from Wallington to London Bridge which caused the problem. However, you then continued your journey* onto North Greenwich and must have completed the extra 2-3 zones in just enough time for the journey to then be ok. This meant you were then capped at £7.50 for the day and explains why the bus at the end didn't cost you anything.

* London Bridge is an out-of-station interchange so as long as you took less than 20 minutes to get from the NR gates to the LU gates it will have continued the original journey.

For the future though ... next time you do that journey go Sutton-West Croydon, then Overground to Canada Water, then Jubilee Line after touching on the pink route validator. It'll save you the zone 1 fare hike.

 

[londonbridge]

Thanks for the explanation. I live in Wallington and could just have easily got a bus to Sutton to meet my friend but decided on the train instead. I know it would have been a lot easier to touch out at Sutton and wait for her outside,then back in again and start a seperate journey but I couldn't be bothered as I thought I'd have enough time. Afterwards I couldn't work out how the penalty fare had apparently been cancelled. I'm still getting to grips with the ins and outs of PAYG on all national rail services as beforehand I just used to buy a 1-6 day travelcard whenever I went into London for the day/evening.

Your suggestion of using the Overground from West Croydon is received with thanks and I'll certainly bear that in mind when/if I go to the o2 again. The only thing to watch would be the timetable as by the time we got out of the o2 and back on the tube we only just caught the last train from LB to Sutton and ended up on the FCC via Wimbledon.

One other point re through journeys that's irritating me,if you go FCC from East Croydon to St Pancras the off-peak oyster fare is £2.60. Some weekends the line is closed between LB and SP due to ongoing engineering and you're told to use the Northern Line between these two points. By doing so you're charged a through fare of £3.70! I know this is down to how the system is set up but I don't think that's fair or right.

 

[MikeWh]

Thanks for the explanation. I live in Wallington and could just have easily got a bus to Sutton to meet my friend but decided on the train instead. I know it would have been a lot easier to touch out at Sutton and wait for her outside,then back in again and start a seperate journey but I couldn't be bothered as I thought I'd have enough time. Afterwards I couldn't work out how the penalty fare had apparently been cancelled. I'm still getting to grips with the ins and outs of PAYG on all national rail services as beforehand I just used to buy a 1-6 day travelcard whenever I went into London for the day/evening.

A lot of people are still getting to grips with PAYG, including some of the staff. I really ought to be thanking you for reporting this issue. It's not a scenario that I'd realised might exist. If I may, I'd like to include a comment about this on my blog/site covering Oyster on National Rail in an alternative way to the TfL site.

Your suggestion of using the Overground from West Croydon is received with thanks and I'll certainly bear that in mind when/if I go to the o2 again. The only thing to watch would be the timetable as by the time we got out of the o2 and back on the tube we only just caught the last train from LB to Sutton and ended up on the FCC via Wimbledon.

Good point about last trains.

One other point re through journeys that's irritating me,if you go FCC from East Croydon to St Pancras the off-peak oyster fare is £2.60. Some weekends the line is closed between LB and SP due to ongoing engineering and you're told to use the Northern Line between these two points. By doing so you're charged a through fare of £3.70! I know this is down to how the system is set up but I don't think that's fair or right.

I agree. They've been offering automatic refunds because of the North London Line closure so they ought to do the same here. Try contacting the oyster helpdesk (by email or it'll cost you more than the refund in phone charges).

 

[yorkie]

It does raise the issue of why on earth do they charge a premium for using a mix of NR + LU anyway (except of course on lines with shared running)? It's insane. Why does the customer care what sort of train it is and who operates it? They want to get from A to B. The price should be the same regardless. This is just money-grabbing by TfL.

 

[MikeWh]

This is just money-grabbing by TfL.

I fear it is money grabbing by the south London TOCs actually. Historically there was always an additional charge for using the underground in zone 1. It seems that they haven't yet agreed to forego that income so the additional rate was introduced presumably to stop the whole expansion of the system falling through. It doesn't apply on TOCs that joined Oyster before this year (eg c2c, Chiltern)

 

[A60K]

The price should be the same regardless. This is just money-grabbing by TfL.

By National Rail companies, not by TfL. TfL under Ken wanted a common London fare scale, but full NR participation was only agreed on the basis that they could have differential fares if an NR leg was included - similar to paper tickets.

 

[londonbridge]

I agree. They've been offering automatic refunds because of the North London Line closure so they ought to do the same here. Try contacting the oyster helpdesk (by email or it'll cost you more than the refund in phone charges).

I did. They said it was classed as a through fare so no refund was due! When I asked why I was expected to pay more as a result of engineering work the reply was that my comment would be noted and passed to the appropriate person.