Oyster extension in January

[jopsuk]

the updated "London Rail and Tube services map" (with the Overground changes) now shows the additional Oyster PAYG validity. I'm a bit surprised- I'd been led to believe all the additional stations would be in Watford/Greys style "special" zones, but Theobalds Grove and Waltham Cross join Zone 7 with Chesunt in Zone 8. Broxbourne though goes into the "special" zone. Brentwood and Shenfield are "special" too.

I take it the decision on which zone to apply is rather "political"- as with Watford, it seems a bit silly that Broxbourne isn't in Zone 9. If it was purely a distance thing, using the traditional centre of London (Charing Cross) Zone 9 at Chesham is 40km from the centre. Hertford East is only 32.5km- Bishops Stortford, where the weekday trains the serve Lee Valley stations (on the Stratford service) terminate, is 44km. Broxbourne is at 27km- Epping, in Zone 6, is 26.4km. Shenfield is 34.5km.

(Dartford, within the M25, is 24.7km. Basildon is at 40.8km, a few hundred metres further than Chesham. Gatwick Airport is 39.3km)

 

[jopsuk]

In fact, thanks to a handy tool, here is where a 40km Zone 9 would hit

 

[Eagle]

Hmm... Oyster to Gatwick.

 

[tsr]

Hmm... Oyster to Gatwick.

Oh joy... let's introduce some extra "restrictions" to the Gatwick Express...

 

[MikeWh]

I take it the decision on which zone to apply is rather "political"- as with Watford, it seems a bit silly that Broxbourne isn't in Zone 9. If it was purely a distance thing, using the traditional centre of London (Charing Cross) Zone 9 at Chesham is 40km from the centre. Hertford East is only 32.5km- Bishops Stortford, where the weekday trains the serve Lee Valley stations (on the Stratford service) terminate, is 44km. Broxbourne is at 27km- Epping, in Zone 6, is 26.4km. Shenfield is 34.5km.

(Dartford, within the M25, is 24.7km. Basildon is at 40.8km, a few hundred metres further than Chesham. Gatwick Airport is 39.3km)

Yes, it's political, but goverened by connections. Watford Junction is in it's own zone for several reasons, not least because LM price the fare and the existance of numerous non-stop services justifies the additional cost. If LM were to be persuaded to allign the fare to zone 9 levels it would have a dramatic impact on the fares beyond Watford. Chesham, on the other hand, is as far as you can go; while Amersham isn't, but TfL price the fares to there.

Similar anomalies occur in other places too. Epsom is outside the zones while both Epsom Downs and Tattenham Corner were dragged into zone 6 several years ago to encourage use of the branches. Reducing the fares to Epsom would have impact further out to Dorking and Horsham. The one line which currently isn't within any zones (or even Oyster) but should be is the Shepperton branch. I'm sure that it will eventually take Oyster, maybe in zone 7/8, because otherwise it will be something of an ITSO island. It's exclusion owes much to the political wranglings between DfT, TfL and SWT over the compatibility of Oyster and ITSO.

 

[Eagle]

I'm assuming Shenfield gets the go-ahead because of Crossrail? (Wonder what that means for Maidenhead; according to the above map it's slightly further than Chesham.)

 

[34D]

The one line which currently isn't within any zones (or even Oyster) but should be is the Shepperton branch. I'm sure that it will eventually take Oyster, maybe in zone 7/8, because otherwise it will be something of an ITSO island. It's exclusion owes much to the political wranglings between DfT, TfL and SWT over the compatibility of Oyster and ITSO.

I seem to recall (not sure where) that this is exactly what will to happen.

Thanks to the guy who prepared the 40km map, most useful, and to the chap who posted the original post and alerted us to the existance of the new TfL map.

I wonder whether Crossrail will clear up Heathrow, finally?

Regarding the unnumbered zones, we currently have zone W (watford junction)l and Greys (etc, zone G). Presumably Shenfield and Broxbourne will be their own discrete zones (S and B)? I believe the letters are how they are arranged officially.

 

[MikeWh]

Regarding the unnumbered zones, we currently have zone W (watford junction)l and Greys (etc, zone G). Presumably Shenfield and Broxbourne will be their own discrete zones (S and B)? I believe the letters are how they are arranged officially.

B = Broxbourne, or Brentwood?

 

[jon0844]

What happened to the FCC expansion to WGC and St Albans? I know it was dropped shortly before it was due to happen, possibly due to the Olympics and other issues, but surely it makes sense to properly join up these new zones (7 and beyond) and expand out of London in every direction?

Given Boris Johnson's intention to take over the operation of all railways in London, I can't see any reason for Oyster not to extend out further (besides some technical issues that I am sure can be overcome, which are of no concern to Joe Public).

 

[Cletus]

Personally I think that the M25 should be the extent of Oyster zones. I know it's not perfect (Amersham, Epping, etc).
Just ensure that any further extensions don't go beyond the M25.

 

[Eagle]

Personally I think that the M25 should be the extent of Oyster zones. I know it's not perfect (Amersham, Epping, etc).
Just ensure that any further extensions don't go beyond the M25.

Bit arbitrary though (as if you look at a map the radius of the M25 is far from constant; resulting from it being botched together from three separate motorway projects).

 

[jon0844]

That's exactly how the M25 was made, from a mishmash of existing roads and new build sections to eventually join up! Well, technically it hasn't joined up as it's an A-road for the bit by Dartford.

Since it opened, people have started to consider the M25 as the boundary of London but it isn't at all. I really hope TfL wouldn't look at this.

 

[Aictos]

What happened to the FCC expansion to WGC and St Albans? I know it was dropped shortly before it was due to happen, possibly due to the Olympics and other issues, but surely it makes sense to properly join up these new zones (7 and beyond) and expand out of London in every direction?

Given Boris Johnson's intention to take over the operation of all railways in London, I can't see any reason for Oyster not to extend out further (besides some technical issues that I am sure can be overcome, which are of no concern to Joe Public).

Wasn't the reason it got dropped was because the government preferred ITSO to Oyster?

However I like to know why Greater Anglia dropped one of their prior promises to bring Oyster to the Hertford East Branch...

Transport for London News Release in Oct 2011

Greater Anglia News Release in Dec 2011

The Railway Eye Blog Entry from Jan 2012

I know when I asked the Managing Director at a Twitter session for a update, all he would say is Broxbourne will see Oyster and the Hertford East branch won't....

I would love to see Oyster being available at Hertford East because then it's really a no brainer why St Albans, Hertford North and Welwyn Garden City couldn't have Oyster as well,

 

[GodAtum]

In fact, thanks to a handy tool, here is where a 40km Zone 9 would hit

Thats great I can now use my Oyster to go to Woking

 

[jopsuk]

Anyhow, whilst I understand why the zones aren't concentric circles, here's what a ten-zone system of 5km concentric circles would encompass:

Little things to note:

This would include the current limit of Moorgate trains at Letchworth. It would also put Luton, Stansted and Gatwick in the zones. It wouldn't include Reading, demonstrating quite how barking any aspiration for Crossrail to extend all the way there would be.

Anyone care to take this and produce a more "real" version with wiggly lines?