Oxford ticket validity

[jfollows]

From what I read in the post I linked to in post #8 above, senior management is aware but doesn’t care. Poor staff training and, probably, high staff turnover play their part. GWR loses little to no money by getting this consistently wrong, so stuff the passenger.

 

[Sonic1234]

senior management is aware but doesn’t care

Not just disinterest, but senior management applying how they would like the world to be, rather than how it is. GWR would prefer all those non-GWR set off peak fares which are valid between 1600-1900 to go away.

 

[Tw99]

A few years ago they had posters by the gatelines which had a list of all the "peak trains" between 4pm and 7pm for which many off-peak tickets are not valid, but the posters also had a tiny footnote that explained something along the lines of "off peak tickets for other routes may be valid on these trains". So at least at some point in the fairly recent past, it seems like GWR were prepared to acknowledge the reality.

 

[sammyg901]

I wrote back with a "letter before action" and got a reply back today from an "Executive Correspondence Manager" who said

"I have taken this opportunity to look into this further for you and can confirm your tickets should have been accepted. It appears the situation occurred as Off-Peak tickets from London Paddington to Oxford wouldn’t usually be valid on the 16:58 service, however, this restriction didn’t apply to your ticket. "

She is arranging the refund and has additionally sent a £20 voucher. So a reasonable outcome but of course shouldn't have been required at all - gate staff should be trained in the very basic concept of looking up a restriction code but sounds like a problem that will be ongoing at Paddington until the end of time! Though to be honest it wouldn't suprise me if the "simplication" was to update the restriction code on a BZ6-Oxford ticket to bar evening trains instead

 

[Sonic1234]

She is arranging the refund and has additionally sent a £20 voucher

If something goes wrong on the railway and you want it fixed, you need to make it cost them. Good customer service these days will only happen if it is the lower cost option.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

This problem has, indeed, been going for decades. Possibly not helped by GWR putting up misleading signs saying that 'Off Peak' Tickets are only valid at Off Peak times, ie. implying that the ticket type that governs completely the validity of the ticket from Paddington. Which is the 'rule' that clearly most staff are trained to apply even though the rule is actually a very different one ie. it is the validity that is actually on the ticket that applies, which varies by origin and destination, and this applies to all tickets that do not necessarily have London Paddington as origin or destination but are valid through it.
Once all fares are controlled by GBR, one imagines that they will simply scrap all this and simply apply the 'rule' that the staff seem to think applies curently. Then try and ride out the negative publicity from it. The approach only arises because the validity of some tickets is controlled by others (ie. not GWR). Once it is all one big happy family, it is likely that they will want to switch to ticket type as the determinant of validity....

 

[Flying Snail]

If something goes wrong on the railway and you want it fixed, you need to make it cost them. Good customer service these days will only happen if it is the lower cost option.

A £20 voucher is not costing the railway in any real sense though, as is obvious by how long this has been happening there will be no change in behaviour as a result of this very minor result.

It is hard to see how this could be escalated to the point it would actually have any effect on senior GWR management.

 

[Benjwri]

A £20 voucher is not costing the railway in any real sense though, as is obvious by how long this has been happening there will be no change in behaviour as a result of this very minor result.

It is hard to see how this could be escalated to the point it would actually have any effect on senior GWR management.

Yes that’s the posters point, they chose the voucher because it was cheaper than Small Claims Court and likely seeking professional legal advice

 

[Sonic1234]

It is hard to see how this could be escalated to the point it would actually have any effect on senior GWR management.

That, unfortunately, is reality.

I was refused a break of journey by TfL once (National Rail service, gates managed by LU) which ended up with taking them to the small claims court. They paid out, which feels like you've won a David and Goliath battle. The reality is that it's such a niche thing to do, if TfL had to pay out an Oyster fare + court fee for everyone who tried the same thing it would barely register in their accounts.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Once all fares are controlled by GBR, one imagines that they will simply scrap all this and simply apply the 'rule' that the staff seem to think applies curently.

They'll do what LNER have done. Abolish off-peak fares entirely and, hey presto, the problem goes away.

 

[sammyg901]

A £20 voucher is not costing the railway in any real sense though, as is obvious by how long this has been happening there will be no change in behaviour as a result of this very minor result.

It is hard to see how this could be escalated to the point it would actually have any effect on senior GWR management.

Yes as my understanding is you can only escalate a "deadlocked" complaint. They resolved my situation with compensation on top so that is that.

Could try your MP if they were on the route (mine is not) but it's very niche topic doubt they'd get too involved

 

[redreni]

That, unfortunately, is reality.

I was refused a break of journey by TfL once (National Rail service, gates managed by LU) which ended up with taking them to the small claims court. They paid out, which feels like you've won a David and Goliath battle. The reality is that it's such a niche thing to do, if TfL had to pay out an Oyster fare + court fee for everyone who tried the same thing it would barely register in their accounts.

I'm sure it's fairly niche, but it's impossible to know how many people raise this issue with TfL. They're very good at giving each person the impression they're the only person in London who has ever raised the issue with them. Just like each sub-postmaster who said Horizon was inaccurate was left with the impression they were the only one saying so.

GWR are no different with their inaccurate announcements and signage and their blatantly telling staff to refuse valid tickets. If you complain, they'll pretend they don't know what you're on about. But I guarantee enough people have raised this issue with them for them to recognise it. A tiny proportion of passengers, sure, but more than enough for GWR as an organisation to know all about it.

It was Post Office policy that Horizon was robust, even though it wasn't. It is TfL's policy that they are permitted to ignore Condition 16 NRCoT and ban break of journey on a National Rail line, even though they're not. It is GWR policy that their staff aren't refusing to accept valid tickets, even though they are.

 

[sammyg901]

I was at Paddington yesterday and noticed that the screens say "THE FOLLOWING TICKETS ARE NOT VALID ON THIS SERVICE: SUPER OFF-PEAK OFF-PEAK" .

Which is quite unbelievable really as there are lots of very mainstream off-peak tickets involving other TOCs etc that would be valid on GWR trains at "peak times"- random example e.g. Norwich to Swansea only has restrictons on the arrival/departure from Liverpool St

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Norwich to Swansea only has restrictons on the arrival/departure from Liverpool St

if in some parallel universe, Crossrail was for Inter City trains as well, you might have a through train from Norwich to Swansea, Banning the Paddington to Swansea leg makes about as much sense as banning a Birmingham to Exeter leg on a Cross Country train via Birmingham because it passed through Birmingham between 4pm and 7pm.

 

[4COR]

Which is quite unbelievable really as there are lots of very mainstream off-peak tickets involving other TOCs etc that would be valid on GWR trains at "peak times"- random example e.g. Norwich to Swansea only has restrictons on the arrival/departure from Liverpool St

The Oxford-Cambridge SVR Return (4J) or reverse (Y4), given the linking of the two University cities, is another prime example here.

 

[plugwash]

It was Post Office policy that Horizon was robust, even though it wasn't. It is TfL's policy that they are permitted to ignore Condition 16 NRCoT and ban break of journey on a National Rail line, even though they're not. It is GWR policy that their staff aren't refusing to accept valid tickets, even though they are.

We desperately need a poitical party with a manifesto pledge to punish these people.

 

[Sonic1234]

It was Post Office policy that Horizon was robust, even though it wasn't. It is TfL's policy that they are permitted to ignore Condition 16 NRCoT and ban break of journey on a National Rail line, even though they're not. It is GWR policy that their staff aren't refusing to accept valid tickets, even though they are.

The problem with rules is practically, the rules are what the guy on the gates says they are.

It's all well and good knowing about Condition 16 and restriction code Y4 not C4, but if they won't let you through you're not going anywhere. What this does allow is to claim redress through customer relations or the courts.

In my opinion, the best customer service on the railway is the ungated unstaffed station. No having to educate someone on a placement from OnTrak what break of journey is.

GWR refusing valid off peak tickets is no different to people who apply railcard discounts they are not entitled to - they are playing by the rules they would like to see, rather than how they are.

 

[MotCO]

GWR refusing valid off peak tickets is no different to people who apply railcard discounts they are not entitled to - they are playing by the rules they would like to see, rather than how they are.

In which case the punishment should be the same: the cost of the fare refunded plus £150 compensation.

 

[gray1404]

Paddington seams like such a lottery. I've had tickets issued up North with an origin of London Terminals for a journey commencing at Paddington, for the ticket to simply open the barrier. Then only to arrive at my destination having got off GWR to be told at the gate line having rejected my ticket that it's not valid as it's Off Peak.

In fact I've had 2 stand offs now, lasting about 3 minutes each, with GWR RPI's (wearing authorised collector badges) over validity. For the first I showed the itinerary I was given when booking the ticket. Not that I travelled on my selected train but I was able to demonstrate validity between their made up off peak times. For the second I loaded the ticket restrictions on BR Fares to which I was told they could not accept that as it's not an official train company website. So I then loaded the restrictions on National Rail to be let through.

On both occasions my ticket was retained. I didn't sense any hostility the first time and never heard anything back. On the second occasion I had been asked for my details initially for a penalty fare before being let through when I showed the restrictions. I had another 2 minute discussion the other side of the gateline asking for my ticket back as I had encountered a delay on a previous train. Showing my split tickets and the delay from the said service from Crewe to London on RealTimeTrains resulted in my ticket being returned to me.

I strongly suspected that RPI would have written a report had he kept the ticket but thankfully I heard nothing back.

 

[Sonic1234]

I strongly suspected that RPI would have written a report had he kept the ticket but thankfully I heard nothing back.

If a ticket is rejected at a barrier, I always ask to keep it. On GTR, where Advance tickets are rejected as a policy, I always ask for them back, just in case they get my ticket confused with that of a miscreant.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2025 ==

In fact I've had 2 stand offs now, lasting about 3 minutes each, with GWR RPI's (wearing authorised collector badges) over validity.

Did you complain? Conflict with staff puts me off the railway.