Oxford Low Traffic Neighbourhood

[Mikey C]

Moderator note - split from:

Nuneham Viaduct shut - Didcot- Oxford

News on Twitter that there are problems with Nuneham Viaduct leading to the line between Oxford and Didcot being closed Breaking: the railway line between Didcot and Oxford is closed. An urgent safety inspection of Nuneham Viaduct, which is between Culham and Radley stations. An update is...

www.railforums.co.uk

However assuming that 'Disgruntled of Oxford' is referring to the Botley Road closure as stopping people getting from one end of the city to the other.... That is for a major public transport improvement project, the expansion of Oxford station!

I imagine he's referring to the Oxford LTN (Low Traffic Neighbourhood)

Low Traffic Neighbourhoods: Is this the UK's most abused traffic bollard?

Installed in a Low Traffic Neighbourhood, it has been repeatedly run over, bent, burned and, finally, stolen.

www.bbc.co.uk

You have probably never felt sympathy for a bollard before, but spare a thought for the one installed on Howard Street in east Oxford last year.
It is probably the most abused bollard in the UK.
It is blocking the road as part of a Low Traffic Neighbourhood - an LTN - and has been repeatedly run over, beaten, bent, burnt and, finally, stolen.

 

[brad465]

I imagine he's referring to the Oxford LTN (Low Traffic Neighbourhood)

Low Traffic Neighbourhoods: Is this the UK's most abused traffic bollard?

Installed in a Low Traffic Neighbourhood, it has been repeatedly run over, bent, burned and, finally, stolen.

www.bbc.co.uk

They might fight over the issue but the City Council elections last year saw no change in control of the Labour council, and actually say Green seats go up by 3, while no Tory seats exist. All while the LTN proposals date back at least 2 years, so this must have been a known issue.

Presumably though something will need doing about these traffic policy while the railway is severed, if traffic levels will increase in the short term.

 

[JamesT]

They might fight over the issue but the City Council elections last year saw no change in control of the Labour council, and actually say Green seats go up by 3, while no Tory seats exist. All while the LTN proposals date back at least 2 years, so this must have been a known issue.

Presumably though something will need doing about these traffic policy while the railway is severed, if traffic levels will increase in the short term.

Roads are managed by the County Council, so those elections had no material effect even though various anti-LTN candidates stood.
The next phase of work to control Oxford’s traffic, the bus gates, is on hold until the station works are completed.

 

[snowball]

I imagine he's referring to the Oxford LTN (Low Traffic Neighbourhood)

Low Traffic Neighbourhoods: Is this the UK's most abused traffic bollard?

Installed in a Low Traffic Neighbourhood, it has been repeatedly run over, bent, burned and, finally, stolen.

www.bbc.co.uk

There is at this moment an item about this "most abused bollard" on the BBC1 national lunchtime news. Also about similar developments in other towns, but using this one as a focus. Panorama this evening will also be about it.

 

[Falcon1200]

I imagine he's referring to the Oxford LTN (Low Traffic Neighbourhood)

Perhaps, but I don't think they really stop people getting 'from one end of the city to the other'!

 

[Mikey C]

Perhaps, but I don't think they really stop people getting 'from one end of the city to the other'!

The next stage will heavily restrict people's ability to drive through Oxford. Panorama just now on BBC1 covered it

 

[Falcon1200]

The next stage will heavily restrict people's ability to drive through Oxford. Panorama just now on BBC1 covered it

That is certainly true!

 

[Snapper37]

Perhaps, but I don't think they really stop people getting 'from one end of the city to the other'!

They really don’t make things easy. I can now only get to my parents house from one direction, I now have to circumnavigate the ring road and come in from the opposite direction to where I live. Well be even worse when the next phase comes in. Getting from a lot of Oxfordshire villages to inside the ring road is hard work.

 

[Nicholas43]

They really don’t make things easy. I can now only get to my parents house from one direction, I now have to circumnavigate the ring road and come in from the opposite direction to where I live. Well be even worse when the next phase comes in. Getting from a lot of Oxfordshire villages to inside the ring road is hard work.

I'm amazed that these myths persist. For all the time I lived in Oxford, there were, of course, lots of one way streets and cul de sacs that you could only reach in one direction if you were car-dependent. And please name one or two villages from which it is 'hard work' (again, if you are car-dependent) to get inside the ring road.

 

[PeterC]

From the context it sounds as if he is referring to the 6 month closure of Botley Road, the only route west from the station which is highly disruptive. The LTN is on the opposite side of the city.

Existing city centre restrictions, nothing to do with LTNs, do make cross city car journeys difficult.

Of course the anti LTN campaigners will conflate the Botley Road issues with their own campaign

 

[duncanp]

There is at this moment an item about this "most abused bollard" on the BBC1 national lunchtime news. Also about similar developments in other towns, but using this one as a focus. Panorama this evening will also be about it.

One thing about low traffic neighbourhoods is that, if a car has to make a long detour to get to its destination because the shortest route is blocked by a bollard, then overall the amount of pollution emitted will be higher, due to the longer journey.

There is not much point in having a low traffic neighbourhood if it just causes increased traffic congestion nearby, and increased pollution for residents in the area.

There are also issues with emergency services vehicles taking longer to get where they need to go, and businesses suffering a loss of trade because of reduced footfall.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing about low traffic neighbourhoods is that, if a car has to make a long detour to get to its destination because the shortest route is blocked by a bollard, then overall the amount of pollution emitted will be higher, due to the longer journey.

The idea is that the longer car journey is so much of a faff that you walk instead for the local journey.

There are also issues with emergency services vehicles taking longer to get where they need to go

The camera-based LTN design proposed for Oxford doesn't have this problem, as they would just register the plates of all the ambulances, fire engines, police cars etc so they can still go through without penalty.

and businesses suffering a loss of trade because of reduced footfall.

That might be an issue for some types of business (e.g. takeaways), but it's of benefit to others (e.g. cafes and other businesses based on people spending time in what are now more pleasant places, and those who deliver takeaways on pushbikes and ebikes). Swings and roundabouts.

 

[zwk500]

That might be an issue for some types of business (e.g. takeaways), but it's of benefit to others (e.g. cafes and other businesses based on people spending time in what are now more pleasant places, and those who deliver takeaways on pushbikes and ebikes). Swings and roundabouts.

Indeed. Go to any pedestrianised town centre and see the difference.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

They really don’t make things easy. I can now only get to my parents house from one direction, I now have to circumnavigate the ring road and come in from the opposite direction to where I live. Well be even worse when the next phase comes in. Getting from a lot of Oxfordshire villages to inside the ring road is hard work.

I'm surprised by this. I also live in an Oxfordshire village (technically a very small town). The LTNs don't affect me at all and I haven't heard anyone else here say that they're inconvenienced by them. If my wife is going to the tropical fish shop on Magdalen Road then she needs to approach from Iffley Road rather than Cowley Road - well, that or walk an extra 50m - but that's hardly an inconvenience.

Mostly the LTNs affect short intra-Oxford journeys, which is exactly as designed.

 

[yorkie]

They really don’t make things easy. I can now only get to my parents house from one direction, I now have to circumnavigate the ring road and come in from the opposite direction to where I live. Well be even worse when the next phase comes in. Getting from a lot of Oxfordshire villages to inside the ring road is hard work.

Can you point us to the roads you are trying to get between? Or if you don't want to divulge them, provide an equivalent example?

 

[Snapper37]

Wow didn’t expect this to kick off so much interest. My parents live on the Florence Park area, I live in a village in North West Oxfordshire. Current choice of routes are down the A44, currently down to one lane due road works, via the A40 usually very busy, or over the toll bridge and then
in via the Botley Road or via the ring road. I can’t really access the estate from the Oxford end anymore so that cuts out down the Botley Rd, even if it was open, and up the Abingdon Rd and Donington Bridge. I used to go via Crowell road, that is now blocked, too. So really in via Rose Hill or via the Garsington Road and Cowley centre. Obviously it’s not impossible, but it’s harder. The general point I was making re the villages, is that all of the bus routes and P&R’s are Oxford centric, fine if you want to go to the city centre, but not so good if you want to transit Oxford to one of the estates or work locations such as BMW or Unipart. The ring road traffic seems to be getting worse, and we soon have the rail bridge road works to look forward to at Kennington.

 

[Falcon1200]

LTNs are of course wonderful for those living in the affected streets - Who would not want less traffic passing their door? But what about those where reducing traffic is next to impossible?

For example, my family home in Oxford was, when my parents bought it, the last house in the street, with fields behind - idyllic! Then a housing estate was built on the fields, but at least the passing traffic was purely local. Later, the road was connected to the bypass and became a through route, which enables traffic to avoid a village with narrow roads, at the expense of course of those living on the new route. Later again, the now-massive JR Hospital was built on a totally unsuitable suburban site, near to the bypass but with no direct access to it, meaning that our once-quiet street is now a major road, with traffic backing up in the morning from 0630 onwards. Not just cars but lorries, tourist buses, empty local buses, and of course a regular flow of Ambulances (with sirens blaring) now use this road. I look forward to seeing bollards here......

(And I do wonder how many of those supporting and/or living in LTNs are quite happy to drive their own vehicles along other people's streets, without a moment's concern for the folk living there.....)

 

[Snapper37]

Don’t get me started on the craziness that is the JR. I have regular eye appointments, eye drops are used which means I can’t drive for six hours after. My village has no meaningful public transport. Parking at the JR is basically a non starter. I can either rely on a lift to Woodstock
, where I can get the bus with only two changes, or a taxi. Same on the reverse trip.

 

[zwk500]

LTNs are of course wonderful for those living in the affected streets - Who would not want less traffic passing their door? But what about those where reducing traffic is next to impossible?

(And I do wonder how many of those supporting and/or living in LTNs are quite happy to drive their own vehicles along other people's streets, without a moment's concern for the folk living there.....)

While these are valid points, 1. It's not possible to have a perfect world, 2. Hopefully as less car-centric policies are advanced situations such as you describe for your father will happen less often and 3. As people become more attuned to the idea that cars aren't necessary for every journey, LTNs will (theoretically) assist in an overall traffic calming presence.

 

[Nicholas43]

Don’t get me started on the craziness that is the JR.

I agree it's tough if your village has no buses. From Woodstock, you can get one bus to Summertown, and then one bus to the JR: https://oxontime.com/departure-single-page/2737

 

[Bletchleyite]

LTNs are of course wonderful for those living in the affected streets - Who would not want less traffic passing their door?

It's not just about that. Sometimes people find it convenient to go out of either end of their road, whereas if it was LTN-ed they'd only be able to go out of one end. That can often mean a long drive round possibly with lots of congestion. So as with anything it's a bit "yes and no".

 

[Nicholas43]

That can often mean a long drive round possibly with lots of congestion.

Define 'long'! In East Oxford, it's rarely more than half a mile. And, of course, there are plenty of roads (such as Boundary Brook Road) from which you have never been able to drive direct to Cowley Road. In the famous case of Divinity Road, it used to be frequently blocked by standoffs between cars trying to drive through in both directions. Now (they tell me) residents can, usually, plan ahead and leave their car in a good place for their likely next journey. The problem remains of too many vehicles in St Clements, with too few gaps for them to get onto the Plain roundabout. County traffic engineers are said to be working on that.

 

[geoffk]

I watched the Panorama programme and was in fact going to post a new thread when I found this one! I can't comment on Oxford as I don't have enough knowledge of the city, but thought that the programme was, as expected, somewhat confrontational, with “vox pop” interviews of the two groups representing, on the one hand, residents concerned about traffic congestion, pollution and public health and, on the other, those who insisted on their right to drive cars where they wanted, these including climate-change denier Laurence Fox and a guy from the Tax Payer’s Alliance.

The reasoning behind these traffic schemes is attracting conspiracy theorists and stirring up another culture war, but the programme also set out to explain the wider government initiatives around LTNs, such as the increased spending after lockdown to promote cycling and walking. Is this style of programme helpful and are LTNs a good thing in principle, provided there is proper consultation, given that we are likely to see many more in our towns and cities? A similar scheme here in Exeter has attracted some local opposition from the "usual keyboard warriors" but I don't live in that area!

 

[Snapper37]

I agree it's tough if your village has no buses. From Woodstock, you can get one bus to Summertown, and then one bus to the JR: https://oxontime.com/departure-single-page/2737

Yes I take the s7 to parkway and change for the direct jr service. It’s getting to and from Woodstock that is the problem

 

[yorkie]

LTNs are of course wonderful for those living in the affected streets - Who would not want less traffic passing their door? But what about those where reducing traffic is next to impossible?

It's not just about that, but we need to create cities where you can walk from one area to the other in pleasant surroundings.

For example, my family home in Oxford was, when my parents bought it, the last house in the street, with fields behind - idyllic! Then a housing estate was built on the fields, but at least the passing traffic was purely local. Later, the road was connected to the bypass and became a through route, which enables traffic to avoid a village with narrow roads, at the expense of course of those living on the new route. Later again, the now-massive JR Hospital was built on a totally unsuitable suburban site, near to the bypass but with no direct access to it, meaning that our once-quiet street is now a major road, with traffic backing up in the morning from 0630 onwards. Not just cars but lorries, tourist buses, empty local buses, and of course a regular flow of Ambulances (with sirens blaring) now use this road. I look forward to seeing bollards here......

Clearly more needs to be done to encourage modal shift away from cars.

(And I do wonder how many of those supporting and/or living in LTNs are quite happy to drive their own vehicles along other people's streets, without a moment's concern for the folk living there.....)

Unfortunately a lot of people do indeed decide to get into their cars without concern for others; this is one of the reasons I have chosen not to drive a car because I don't want to be contributing to that problem.

I accept that sometimes there is no alternative, but within cities a lot can be done to reduce car dependency; the UK has been very bad at this and LTNs are one way in which we are addressing the problem, but more needs to be done, including public transport.

We have far too many people addicted to their cars in this country.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Apr 2023 ==

Wow didn’t expect this to kick off so much interest. My parents live on the Florence Park area, I live in a village in North West Oxfordshire. Current choice of routes are down the A44, currently down to one lane due road works, via the A40 usually very busy, or over the toll bridge and then
in via the Botley Road or via the ring road. I can’t really access the estate from the Oxford end anymore so that cuts out down the Botley Rd, even if it was open, and up the Abingdon Rd and Donington Bridge. I used to go via Crowell road, that is now blocked, too. So really in via Rose Hill or via the Garsington Road and Cowley centre.

I planned a journey from a village to the north west of Oxford to Florence Park and it did indeed suggest via Rose Grove, and I don't see what the issue with that is. I am not based in the area so perhaps someone local will understand the issue...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I accept that sometimes there is no alternative, but within cities a lot can be done to reduce car dependency; the UK has been very bad at this and LTNs are one way in which we are addressing the problem, but more needs to be done, including public transport.

Oxford does have an excellent bus service by UK standards including the park and ride sites, but I do wonder just how much difference it would make to car usage for local trips if it had both a tram and better dedicated cycle facilities. It'd be surprisingly easy to serve by tram because it's of a curious almost linear shape (bar Blackbird Leys and the area around it).

The stick works to an extent, but the UK lacks the important carrot.

 

[yorkie]

Oxford does have an excellent bus service by UK standards including the park and ride sites, but I do wonder just how much difference it would make to car usage for local trips if it had both a tram and better dedicated cycle facilities. It'd be surprisingly easy to serve by tram because it's of a curious almost linear shape (bar Blackbird Leys and the area around it).

For the tram proposal, best thing to do is to create a new thread in Speculative Discussion and link to it from here

The stick works to an extent, but the UK lacks the important carrot.

Yes agreed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the tram proposal, best thing to do is to create a new thread in Speculative Discussion and link to it from here

Here you go:

Should Oxford have a tramway?

The LTN thread here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/oxford-low-traffic-neighbourhood.247180/#post-6178606 discusses the issues of excessive car use for local journeys in Oxford, with the LTN concept being a stick with regard to that traffic. But what about a carrot? While Oxford does...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[zwk500]

Oxford does have an excellent bus service by UK standards including the park and ride sites, but I do wonder just how much difference it would make to car usage for local trips if it had both a tram and better dedicated cycle facilities. It'd be surprisingly easy to serve by tram because it's of a curious almost linear shape (bar Blackbird Leys and the area around it).

The stick works to an extent, but the UK lacks the important carrot.

Oxford is an interesting one because of the historic city centre - an interesting comparison to my current location, with a very very tight local road network that has lots of LTN-type filtering so that bikes and pedestrians can go pretty much anywhere but cars are limited to fairly well defined routes (over here a single bollard or even just a 'no cars' sign is enough because people have got used to the restrictoins). Importantly - most buses are routed around the historic area's edge, so that people are dropped off at only a couple of places that function like bus stations (they're just lines of conventional bus stops). An interesting point is that cars aren't banned from the city centre at all - indeed there's an underground car park under the main town square. However I do concede that there is a much stronger cycling culture here that the UK is a a generation away from achieving, even if it did the infrastructure works overnight.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oxford is an interesting one because of the historic city centre - an interesting comparison to my current location, with a very very tight local road network that has lots of LTN-type filtering so that bikes and pedestrians can go pretty much anywhere but cars are limited to fairly well defined routes (over here a single bollard or even just a 'no cars' sign is enough because people have got used to the restrictoins). Importantly - most buses are routed around the historic area's edge, so that people are dropped off at only a couple of places that function like bus stations (they're just lines of conventional bus stops). An interesting point is that cars aren't banned from the city centre at all - indeed there's an underground car park under the main town square. However I do concede that there is a much stronger cycling culture here that the UK is a a generation away from achieving, even if it did the infrastructure works overnight.

Though I think Oxford could get there fairly quickly simply because unlike most of the UK it's mostly flat. The big barrier to cycling in the UK alongside the reason the Netherlands is so well suited to it (mitigated to an extent by e-bikes, though the barrier to those is that they're costly) is that it's hilly.