Owned/Leased Rolling Stock

[GM228]

I'm curious is there any passenger operators who own outright any rolling stock rather than leasing from the ROSCOs? Even a small number of items such as a shunter etc?

On the freight side I know that the freight companies own outright most of their stuff or do they? (I know the DBS 66/67s are long term leased from the banks I think rather than a ROSCO??) Don't some of companies also lease wagons aswell?

GM228

 

[kjhskj75]

At one time 89001 Avocet was owned by GNER, who used it on the ECML.

 

[GM228]

At one time 89001 Avocet was owned by GNER, who used it on the ECML.

I seem to recall they spent a massive amount of money buying and overhauling it only for them to store it again after only 2 or 3 years due to various problems with it.

It's good to see that ACLG hope to bring it back to the mainline in the future!

GM228

 

[cj_1985]

DRS own a fair number of their locos... all class 20s, 37s, 47s and a class 57/0. The rest are leased

Freightliner lease all of their class 66s, 70s and 90s... they own their 08s, 47s and 86s


Colas own most of their locos

DBS own their 08s, 09s, 60s... iirc the rest are all leased

GBRf own their 08s, 09s, 73s and 92s... along with a number of their 66s, but most are leased. The 20s and 47s are leased from HNRC

First group own a number of HST sets that they lease to FGW

 

[matt]

First Great Western own a number of HSTs. (10 sounds familiar, not sure if power cars or sets)

 

[thenorthern]

Chiltern own their Class 121s and Arriva Trains Wales owned a Class 121 for a while.

In 2007 South West Trains bought the Class 483s that are used on the Island Line outright from HSBC rail for £1. I think as well a small number of Class 143s may be owned by local authorities but I am not sure.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

DB Arriva owns some Mk3 stock, used on Chiltern and ATW loco-hauled services.

 

[northwichcat]

FGW also own 3 of their class 143s, the rest are owned by Porterbrook.

 

[kjhskj75]

I think as well a small number of Class 143s may be owned by local authorities but I am not sure.

7 were at one time owned by county councils in Glamorgan. There has been local government re-organization since then, so I don't know who has them now. (edit: the three that belonged to West Glamorgan are now FGW)

In addition the centre cars from those 144s that have them were owned by West Yorkshire PTE.

 

[northwichcat]

In addition the centre cars from those 144s that have them were owned by West Yorkshire PTE.

DfT forced West Yorkshire PTE to sell the 144 centre cars and the 155s they owned in order to fund the use of additional cascaded Sprinter carriages in the area.

 

[455driver]

First Great Western own a number of HSTs. (10 sounds familiar, not sure if power cars or sets)

They are owned by First Group who then lease them to FGW.

 

[cj_1985]

7 were at one time owned by county councils in Glamorgan. There has been local government re-organization since then, so I don't know who has them now. (edit: the three that belonged to West Glamorgan are now FGW)

In addition the centre cars from those 144s that have them were owned by West Yorkshire PTE.

Worth pointing out that when/if First lose the Great Western franchise, they won't take the 143s with them.... they will simple be transferred to the next operator. Along with any other assets ie. Shunters

 

[northwichcat]

Worth pointing out that when/if First lose the Great Western franchise, they won't take the 143s with them.... they will simple be transferred to the next operator.

They won't now. FGW have signed a Direct Award until 2019 which says those 143s will be 'disposed of' in January 2017 and the rest of the 143s will be returned to Porterbrook, alongside the 153s later in the year.

Only way of them automatically transferring to another operator now is if First Group are stripped of the franchise.

 

[cj_1985]

They won't now. FGW have signed a Direct Award until 2019 which says those 143s will be 'disposed of' in January 2017 and the rest of the 143s will be returned to Porterbrook, alongside the 153s later in the year.

Only way of them automatically transferring to another operator now is if First Group are stripped of the franchise.

Fair enough.i hadnt read the fine print about the direct award.

But it doesnt change the fact that most owned stock by a TOC will normally transfer to the next operator rather than taken by the owning parent co.

 

[alexl92]

Freightliner lease all of their class 66s, 70s and 90s... they own their 08s, 47s and 86s

Do FL still have 47s?!

 

[cj_1985]

Do FL still have 47s?!

Yup... 3x IIRC... only one of which is operational. 47830

 

[3270]

Serco own the Mark 2 stock used on the Scottish sleepers. Ownership transferred from Eversholt when the franchise started back in April. (The Mark 3 sleeping cars are still leased.)

 

[physics34]

pretty sure Southern own their class 73 and 09 shunter.

 

[GM228]

Do GBRF own their 59 and the euro spec 66s?

 

[Brian Aylott]

DRS own a fair number of their locos... all class 20s, 37s, 47s and a class 57/0. The rest are leased

Freightliner lease all of their class 66s, 70s and 90s... they own their 08s, 47s and 86s


Colas own most of their locos

DBS own their 08s, 09s, 60s... iirc the rest are all leased

GBRf own their 08s, 09s, 73s and 92s... along with a number of their 66s, but most are leased. The 20s and 47s are leased from HNRC

First group own a number of HST sets that they lease to FGW

That is incorrect
DBS only lease 66s and 67s
The rest they own:- including 58/59/90/90s

Brian

 

[cj_1985]

That is incorrect
DBS only lease 66s and 67s
The rest they own:- including 58/59/90/90s

Brian

Since when... the 92s are no longer owned AIUI.... owned now by one of the banks IIRC


And i forgot about the class 59 and 90s being owned, and didnt see the point in mentioning the remaining 56 and 58s

 

[thenorthern]

West Coast Railway owns its stock and is a National Rail company although not one in the usual sense.

 

[onlinespotting]

I thought the remaining 155s were owned by metro which is why they weren't converted to 153s as they refused to have them converted

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I thought the remaining 155s were owned by metro which is why they weren't converted to 153s as they refused to have them converted

They were at the time, and you're right that that is why they weren't split (there was little need for single cars in West Yorkshire, lighter-used services were covered by 141s). However in the early 2000s the DfT forced their sale (and that of the 10 144 centre cars) to the ROSCOs in order to guarantee funding for extra capacity.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Did Metro also have to sell the 158/9s? I think they owned them, having bought them because further 155s were not available.

 

[sprinterguy]

At one time 89001 Avocet was owned by GNER, who used it on the ECML.

Technically, the loco was owned by Sea Containers, GNERs' parent company, in the same way as the mark 3 stock operated by Chiltern and ATW is actually owned by Arriva UK Trains, rather than the TOCs themselves.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Did Metro also have to sell the 158/9s? I think they owned them, having bought them because further 155s were not available.

I thought that the units had always been leased, initially from BR themselves.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

First Great Western own a number of HSTs. (10 sounds familiar, not sure if power cars or sets)

Twelve (former Virgin XC) power cars, five complete HST rakes (as previously mentioned they're owned by First Group rather than FGW themselves).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The class 08s employed by First Great Western are also assets of the Great Western franchise, in the same manner as the three 143s, and London Midland own their own class 08 used at Tyseley, 08616.

 

[CarltonA]

Chiltern own their Class 121s and Arriva Trains Wales owned a Class 121 for a while.

The ATW 121 went to Chiltern, last time I was at Aylesbury it was in the station siding. Chiltern also have a pair of depot shunters, Scaz and Leslie at Wembley and Aylesbury respectively.

 

[northwichcat]

Did Metro also have to sell the 158/9s? I think they owned them, having bought them because further 155s were not available.

The 158/9s are owned by Eversholt and leased by Metro (opposed to owned by Metro or leased directly by Northern Rail): https://www.eversholtrail.co.uk/upload/class-1589.pdf

 

[Brian Aylott]

Since when... the 92s are no longer owned AIUI.... owned now by one of the banks IIRC


And i forgot about the class 59 and 90s being owned, and didnt see the point in mentioning the remaining 56 and 58s

Class 92s were leased from HBOS until 2013/14

Now DBS owned/registered
Brian

 

[D365]

Continuing on the shutter loco theme: 03179 owned by WAGN/FCC/GTR, the Hornsey 'depot mascot'.