Overtime Ban / Driver Shortage Cancellations

[FenMan]

Depends on a number of factors. The cost of cancelling a service will also vary depending on where the performance level of the company is currently at, and the implication of the cancellation can vary a great deal too.

Quite. TOCs seem to be quite keen to ensure the last services of the night run as scheduled.

 

[ComUtoR]

Quite. TOCs seem to be quite keen to ensure the last services of the night run as scheduled.

I don't believe that is due to the cost of cancelling it. Are you suggesting that the last train is significantly more expensive to cancel and that the TOC's take an additional effort to ensure it runs to prevent that cost ?

Don't get me wrong, the last train rarely gets cancelled and every effort is made to keep it in service but there are other underlying factors in that other than the cost.

 

[najaB]

I don't believe that is due to the cost of cancelling it. Are you suggesting that the last train is significantly more expensive to cancel and that the TOC's take an additional effort to ensure it runs to prevent that cost ?

If it leaves passengers stranded then it can be more expensive than a service earlier in the day.

 

[ComUtoR]

If it leaves passengers stranded then it can be more expensive than a service earlier in the day.

Oh I know. We had to put taxi's on the other evening because the connection to the last one out my station was going to be missed. Why they didn't hold it was beyond me but that decision is outside my pay scale.

I've been on the last one down many many times and I've been stranded on it. Getting those passengers home and getting the line cleared is very important. It's probably the only service that I drive that decisions are made due to the need of the passenger rather than the cost of it.

There are other things going on behind the scenes too that ensure that the service runs but passengers do not see behind the scenes. It's a shame that the perception that things get done solely due to money. Both you and I know its often much more.

 

[najaB]

There are other things going on behind the scenes too that ensure that the service runs but passengers do not see behind the scenes. It's a shame that the perception that things get done solely due to money. Both you and I know its often much more.

I'm sure that it's not easy working in Control on the days when everything is going down the pan. I would guess that decisions are made based on what will get the largest number of passengers to where they need to be - which will likely also have the lowest financial impact, but that's not the driving factor.

 

[455driver]

Apart from the fact that mildly aggressive questionning doesn't help the debate, wouldn't the cost of paying for an extra shift, one of these "X" staff, normally be a lot less than the cot of cancelling the train?

It would cost a lot more than getting a driver in on a rest day when its actually needed rather than have drivers sat around being paid to do nothing 'just in case' they ae needed.

At our place we have one morning cover turn and one afternoon cover turn and that's it for a depot of 100 drivers, sometimes these are left uncovered if things are a bit tight so we end up with no cover or spare drivers at all, saves a few quid for the TOC and if a train is cancelled they just blame it on a shortage of drivers (without going into any details as to why), and the great british public naturally assume its the greedy overpaid drivers fault rather than the TOC who are running things as close to minimum as possible.

Oh and I have had people moaning at me because their train has been cancelled due to no driver, I just tell them why it is there wasn't a driver but I don't think any of them actually care as its just easier to blame the drivers.

 

[PeterC]

So you're saying that there should be X amount of staff waiting round for delays and sickness in the depots, just in case

When I used to calculate staffing levels for a major blue chip company a margin was always added to the establishment "just in case".

This did depend on staff being multi skilled so that bodies could be shifted from non time critical duties as necessary.

 

[bb21]

I'm sure that it's not easy working in Control on the days when everything is going down the pan. I would guess that decisions are made based on what will get the largest number of passengers to where they need to be - which will likely also have the lowest financial impact, but that's not the driving factor.

If things go up the spout, there should be appropriate pre-agreed service recovery plans deployed sharpish.

 

[Mojo]

So you're saying that there should be X amount of staff waiting round for delays and sickness in the depots, just in case?

It's not so unrealistic. LU drivers don't work voluntary overtime and depending on effective management, cancellations can be few and far between. As you allude to though, I suspect that in the privatised railway this would be unaffordable.

 

[ComUtoR]

If things go up the spout, there should be appropriate pre-agreed service recovery plans deployed sharpish.

Pretty sure there is. I think I could download it if I had the inclination..

 

[matt_world2004]

So you're saying that there should be X amount of staff waiting round for delays and sickness in the depots, just in case?

How much would you like to pay for that?

Though I will agree that it seems lots of TOCs do not have enough cover but again how many do you want?

LUL and buses have stand by rosters. Or part standby rosters.

 

[MikeWh]

LUL and buses have stand by rosters. Or part standby rosters.

So do TOCs. The question appears to be how much. Do you cover for 1 in 20 absence, 1 in 10, 1 in 5, 1 in 2?

 

[455driver]

If things go up the spout, there should be appropriate pre-agreed service recovery plans deployed sharpish.

But what works at 11:00 wouldnt work at 12:00 because the trains (at the same time past the hour) might have crews from different depots with different route/traction knowledge, different driving hours remaining, different PNB requirements etc.

The only way that would work is if you had recovery plans for every eventuality at every location at every hour of the day, you want to write them all feel free!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Don't get me wrong, the last train rarely gets cancelled and every effort is made to keep it in service but there are other underlying factors in that other than the cost.

Like having an available driver.

 

[455driver]

Like having an available driver.

Indeed, how dare drivers take their allocated leave! :roll:

 

[GB]

Pretty sure there is. I think I could download it if I had the inclination..

Your right there is. I think on the GE theres over 20 different plans depending on whats gone wrong and where...but sometimes the plans do not always fit what is happening.

In any case the plans tend to center on service cancellations, non stop orders or turning short (aka service recovery) which tends to up set people that don't understand it is best in the long run for the majority of passengers.