Overshooting on a season ticket

[robcowen]

From January I will be commuting from Milton Keynes Central to Wembley Central (WMB) and intend to buy a season ticket for this. However there is only one train I can feasibly take each morning that does this journey. If I were to miss it (or it be cancelled) I would have to take a train instead to London Euston, then get the tube back out to Wembley.

What would happen if I tried to use my MKC to WMB season ticket for the journey to Euston? Do I have to pay the full single fare, or is there some way of me paying the excess cost of a journey between Wembley and Euston?

Thanks

Rob

 

[Tetchytyke]

You would have to buy a return ticket from Wembley Central to London Euston, if you're travelling back to Wembley Central on the Overground. As you will be travelling with a season ticket the train does not have to call at Wembley Central. Because Milton Keynes Central is a staffed station, you would have to buy this ticket before getting on your train at Milton Keynes Central.

You may well find it quicker, and certainly cheaper, to get off at Harrow and Wealdstone and take the Overground or the Bakerloo Line to Wembley Central; your season ticket is valid on both.

 

[yorkie]

What would happen if I tried to use my MKC to WMB season ticket for the journey to Euston? Do I have to pay the full single fare, or is there some way of me paying the excess cost of a journey between Wembley and Euston?

An MKC-WMB return (SDR) on paper is expensive, at £11.60.

A paper single (SDS) would be half that (£5.80) and you could use Contactless/Oyster Pay As You Go to get back to WMB for a cheaper price (£2.80).

You are required to get the paper ticket from the ticket office before travel.

If you are taking a Virgin Trains service and approached the Train Manager stating you required an additional ticket, then you would probably be sold the ticket on board the train.

If you are caught without a valid ticket on a London Midland service then you are liable to a Penalty Fare (if you are considered to be making a mistake / not intending to avoid payment), though if you approached the Guard before the penultimate station you would probably be sold a ticket at no penalty.

Is it ever quicker, during the morning peak, via Euston? Journey planners I'm using suggest not*.

(* Except departing 0717, you can get to WMB 1 minute earlier via Euston, compared to the next valid itinerary, which is nonsensical)

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you are taking a Virgin Trains service and approached the Train Manager stating you required an additional ticket, then you would probably be sold the ticket on board the train.

Be careful. I have heard of VT staff taking exception to[1] the use of "London Midland tickets" which are nothing of the sort, and perfectly valid, e.g. a EUS-BLY season with a BLY-MKC single perfectly validly combined with it. I would suggest ensuring you carry enough payment with you to buy an Anytime Single MKC-EUS on board and argue about it afterwards, as this is always easier than arguing on the day and ending up with an unpaid fares notice wrongly issued and all the hassle that brings. And certainly buy the extension ticket in advance whichever TOC you use.

[1] Including refusal of access at Euston northbound.

 

[robcowen]

You would have to buy a return ticket from Wembley Central to London Euston, if you're travelling back to Wembley Central on the Overground. As you will be travelling with a season ticket the train does not have to call at Wembley Central. Because Milton Keynes Central is a staffed station, you would have to buy this ticket before getting on your train at Milton Keynes Central.

You may well find it quicker, and certainly cheaper, to get off at Harrow and Wealdstone and take the Overground or the Bakerloo Line to Wembley Central; your season ticket is valid on both.

Thank you. So, just to clarify, if I have a MKC to WMB season ticket, but board a train that goes direct from MKC to Euston, I would need to buy a single ticket between WMB and Euston before I board at MKC? (No need for a return, as I would then take the tube to Wembley Park instead, as that is closer to my work.)

It's perfectly legal to travel on a season ticket for part of my journey and a single ticket for the remainder, even if the train doesn't stop at WMB?

I called National Rail Enquiries earlier this morning and they said that I wouldn't be allowed to do this, so would have to buy a full ticket between MKC and Euston (or a season ticket that covers zones 1 to 6).

 

[LexyBoy]

Yes, it's in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (nationalrail.co.uk/nrcoc) - Condition 19(c). That tickets are governed by the NRCoC is conveniently printed on the back of most tickets, should be need something to point to.

National Rail Enquiries are totally useless, unfortunately. They can, at best, look up journeys from their own website.

 

[yorkie]

It's perfectly legal to travel on a season ticket for part of my journey and a single ticket for the remainder, even if the train doesn't stop at WMB?

Absolutely.

There is no need to comply with NRCoC Condition 19(b) because one of the tickets is a Season and the other(s) is/are not, so it's valid under Condition 19(c). See Split ticketing

I called National Rail Enquiries earlier this morning and they said that I wouldn't be allowed to do this, so would have to buy a full ticket between MKC and Euston (or a season ticket that covers zones 1 to 6).

A lot of people seem to know about Condition 19(b) but not so many know about 19(a) or 19(c).

The NRCoC appears to be considered too complicated for NRE staff to be familiar with it. Therefore, rather than ask NRE, you are better asking questions on this forum

 

[robcowen]

Yes, it's in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (nationalrail.co.uk/nrcoc) - Condition 19(c). That tickets are governed by the NRCoC is conveniently printed on the back of most tickets, should be need something to point to.

National Rail Enquiries are totally useless, unfortunately. They can, at best, look up journeys from their own website.

Got it, thanks. So it's the fact that part of my journey is by season ticket that means that the train doesn't have to stop at WMB. Excellent... it's almost like the rule was made for my exact situation.

 

[cornishjohn]

An MKC-WMB return (SDR) on paper is expensive, at £11.60.

A paper single (SDS) would be half that (£5.80) and you could use Contactless/Oyster Pay As You Go to get back to WMB for a cheaper price (£2.80).

Yorkie, I think you mean the Euston/Wembley paper return is £11.60?

How often does our OP expect to make the extended journey? The MKC-LondonTerminals weekly season comes in at £122.70 for a 7 day, compared to a 7 day MKC-WMB for £106.80 . If we make the extended trip twice a week, we might as well just have the London Terminals anyway? On a monthly ticket this becomes 7 extended trips per month to save. (Will there ever be occasions on the way home when we go via Euston too?)

Incidentally, NationalRail is showing another season to LondonTerminals apparently valid to Euston/St Pancras for £125/7 day. Anyone know what route/use is this?

 

[Romilly]

Incidentally, NationalRail is showing another season to LondonTerminals apparently valid to Euston/St Pancras for £125/7 day. Anyone know what route/use is this?

I think that's the Milton Keynes Central to London Terminals also available for travel to/from Bedford Stations 7-day season.

 

[cornishjohn]

I think that's the Milton Keynes Central to London Terminals also available for travel to/from Bedford Stations 7-day season.

Ah, gotcha. Thanks.