Overnight BOJ question

[postye]

Hi all, looking for some advice on overnight break of journey, in particular what the deciding factor is when determining whether a journey cannot be completed within the first day?

For an example , If I was travelling London to the highlands on an SSR and I arrived in Edinburgh after 17:40, would an overnight BOJ be permitted to avoid travelling too late or as there was another train between Edinburgh & Inverness?

Also would it have made any difference if I had left London early afternoon and broken journey in Newcastle to visit relatives as if I hadn't the journey could have been completed?

Thanks

 

[yorkie]

Here's an answer from someone in the rail industry...

However, as things stand, an Off-Peak ticket does allow travel into the second day if the journey 'cannot' be completed on the first day, the nature of the rule meaning that it is down to the customer to decide. Such a rule is frankly ridiculous for a journey from Sheffield to York but as the same off-peak ticket type is used on that journey as for a journey from, say, Plymouth to Aberdeen, the same rules have to apply.

There is a piece of work in progress to split longer and shorter distance off-peak tickets into two ticket types. Once that has happened, we can move to a far more sensible arrangement in which the shorter distances will only be valid for one day, and the longer ones will be valid for two days, and it will state clearly on the ticket which applies.

Until then, the rule remains that for an Off-Peak return the journey must commence on the first day, but if it cannot be completed you can finish the journey the following day. The definition of 'cannot be completed' needs to be left to the customer because the definition of which ones cannot be completed depends on so many outside factors, e.g. actual distance; the time that travel commenced; the route being taken; whether there is engineering work or disruption; the need for a passenger actually to stop somewhere they can spend the night; and so on.

Many of the users of this site are very eagle eyed and will happily exploit a rule for a purpose that isn't intended - and, lets face it, anyone going from, say, Rugby to London who claims they cannot complete the journey and must spend the night in Milton Keynes is definitely exploiting this rule in a way that is not the intention. But in that regard, it is no different to split tickets, permitted routes, etc etc. If you know the rules and use them to the letter, it is allowed...!

... he hasn't stated who he works for, or what his position is, but I consider him to be an authoritative source.
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For an example , If I was travelling London to the highlands on an SSR and I arrived in Edinburgh after 17:40, would an overnight BOJ be permitted to avoid travelling too late or as there was another train between Edinburgh & Inverness?

If you miss the 1740 then you can't get to Inverness until a time that you could reasonably state is too late, so you are entitled to stay overnight at Edinburgh (or Stirling, Perth, etc).

Unfortunately I had the displeasure of meeting some of the rudest, most obnoxious individuals I've ever encountered wearing a uniform at Slough a few years ago, who disagreed with that interpretation and stated I had invalidated my ticket by not taking the last train to Weymouth (arriving in the early hours of the next day). They wrote that my ticket was no longer valid, and eventually let me exit with my defaced ticket, which they were reluctant to return to me. The next day I bought a single to Windsor to avoid arguing with them. No other rail staff had any issues with the ticket whatsoever.

Fortunately for the individuals at Slough, I didn't report the matter, but if anyone else experiences that, I would urge you to do so.

 

[postye]

Thanks Yorkie.
Hopefully I won't have any issues at Edinburgh, and I would like to think that the guard on the EDB -INV will have had the situation before and accept the ticket on day 2.

 

[Hadders]

I resumed long distance journeys in Scotland following an overnight break of journey on a couple of occasions last year using a ticket that 'expired' the previous day. No problems on either occasion.

The first time I was travelling to Kyle of Lochalsh and breaking overnight in Inverness. The guard on the train from Glasgow to Inverness looked at my ticket and told me I wouldn't get to Kyle that night. 'No problem, I'm stopping in Inverness overnight' I replied. A few minutes later he made an announcement over the PA for the 'passenger travelling onto Kyle tomorrow morning' giving me the departure time of the train from Inverness the following morning!

I don't expect you to have any problems at all. In my experience it's a bit more relaxed in the Highlands. I suspect it would bit more difficult if you were travelling the other way and you were resuming your journey the following day with, for example, FCC!

 

[arb]

It was asking about an overnight BOJ that led to me finding and joining this site (I was using a slightly esoteric routing and an overnight BOJ to do three separate journeys on one off-peak return instead of three singles).

I'm sure the rules have been subtly tightend up since I did that a few years ago: I definitely recall that overnight BOJ used to be explicitly allowed in all cases (where a normal same day BOJ was) with no questions asked - you didn't theoretically have to have some (however feeble) justification as to why you couldn't have completed your journey on day 1.

On the other hand, I also vaguely recall something like having to finish my journey by 12:00 on day 2, which no longer seems to be a requirement.

 

[bb21]

On the outward portion of Off-Peak Returns, the rules used to be that you must resume by 1200 the following day and no more break of journey is allowed after 1200.