Overlapping announcements

[SuspectUsual]

Interesting experience at Northallerton earlier this morning.

Waiting on the up platform for a train to York.

Announcement 1 - the next train does not stop here, please stand clear

Announcement 2 - the next train at platform 1 is the xx:xx to yyyy

Fast train hammers through

Stopper comes off the Yarm branch

Presumably this is a result of announcements being triggered by the two trains passing trigger points on their respective approaches? If so, it’s a bit risky isn’t it given passengers start to edge forwards after the announcement for the stopping train, but before the fast train has gone through?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That does sound a bit risky as not everyone will realise which platform they are on once they are on the platform... Has it been flagged up to anyone who could look into it?

Separately...

At Stratford, announcements on platforms 8 and 9/10 often overlap with each other rendering both unintelligible...

 

[GordonT]

At Stratford, announcements on platforms 8 and 9/10 often overlap with each other rendering both unintelligible...

Are the Northallerton examples more precisely contradictory announcements rather than announcements happening almost simultaneously? Either way sounds very undesirable from a safety aspect and well worth reporting.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I’ve never noticed it happen before and I’ve used Northallerton a lot over the years. Anyhow I’ve let Network Rail know about it

 

[Deepgreen]

Announcements that actually do cut into other ones are commonplace - usually from live ones cutting into automatic ones. Irritating, and yet another indicator of an information regime that is in disarray. An especially annoying example is when guards cut in to make live annoucements that exactly copy (or try to) the automatic ones they have cut off!

 

[Bletchleyite]

New St used to do this, but they'd use a male voice for one and a female voice for the other - it's amazing how this makes it not at all hard to differentiate for most people.

 

[Mattplans]

That does sound a bit risky as not everyone will realise which platform they are on once they are on the platform... Has it been flagged up to anyone who could look into it?

Separately...

At Stratford, announcements on platforms 8 and 9/10 often overlap with each other rendering both unintelligible...

My issue with Stratford's announcement is the fact that other pre-recorded ones will start playing about they're always out of sync around the station. So, you'll be standing on the XR Eastbound platform and it'll start there, with a 1-3 seconds delay it'll then start on the adjacent GA platforms, all the way to the Overground ones. Not sure why this happens here.

 

[tfw756rider]

An especially annoying example is when guards cut in to make live annoucements that exactly copy (or try to) the automatic ones they have cut off!

That does sound annoying. I was on a Great Western Railway train earlier, and the guard actually said all the same things as Janine and David, before they said them!

 

[Mattplans]

That does sound annoying. I was on a Great Western Railway train earlier, and the guard actually said all the same things as Janine and David, before they said them!

Anyone who's been on the Elizabeth Line will know drivers are obsessed with reminding passengers to change here for trains to the other branch, a few seconds before the train announces it. I suspect this is something they are instructed to do however as far too many drivers do it

 

[SuspectUsual]

That does sound a bit risky as not everyone will realise which platform they are on once they are on the platform...

Are the Northallerton examples more precisely contradictory announcements rather than announcements happening almost simultaneously? Either way sounds very undesirable from a safety aspect and well worth reporting.

Just to clarify, everything I described happened on the up (southbound) platform and in relation to trains on the up line. It wasn't an announcement for a northbound fast train and southbound stopper or anything like that

 

[sheff1]

At Sheffield you get things like "The next train at platform 1 is the xxxx to Leeds" then 30 seconds later, no train having arrived, "The next train at platform 1 is the xxxx to Cleethorpes". Not potentially dangerous as in the example in the OP, but confusing to passengers.

 

[Geeves]

It's probably a good job most people are entirely tuned out. Frequently Digital Doris will announce for passengers to stand back as "this train does not stop here" despite it being a terminal platform. Go figure.

 

[stadler]

New St used to do this, but they'd use a male voice for one and a female voice for the other - it's amazing how this makes it not at all hard to differentiate for most people.

That still happens at quite a few TOCs stations today. GTR stations (Celia/Phil originally and now Anne/Matt). SWR stations (Celia/Phil originally and now Anne/Rodger). SE stations (Pauline/Mark originally and now Anne/Rob). They usually use a male voice on one platform and a female voice on the opposite platform. I am not sure why more TOCs do not do this as it certainly makes it easier to hear when two announcements on opposite platforms play at once.

 

[talldave]

Separately...

At Stratford, announcements on platforms 8 and 9/10 often overlap with each other rendering both unintelligible...

Ditto at Clapham Junction. You can hear the same announcement starting sequentially across platforms a couple of seconds apart. Whoever coded the system obviously didn't think about the impact of not playing announcements in sync!

 

[47296lastduff]

Sometimes at Prestatyn there are up and down trains at almost the same time, and the automated announcements completely drown each other out.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Ditto at Clapham Junction. You can hear the same announcement starting sequentially across platforms a couple of seconds apart. Whoever coded the system obviously didn't think about the impact of not playing announcements in sync!

It's not the same announcement at Stratford though - it's the correct ones for each platform, but they play simultaneously resulting in a messy jumble of noise.

 

[185]

I got the impression when I first read this that some train operators were putting out so many (pointless) announcements they're having to overlap them. "Today, the sky is blue" "don't run" and "6101610..."

 

[TFN]

Canada Water Overground platforms are an absolute mess in overlapping and consecutive announcements.

 

[swt_passenger]

Perhaps this could be referred to as overlapping ‘events’, ie the first event is a combination of the warning message and the fast train passing through, and the next event is the information message and the stopping train er… stopping. But how to delay the start of the second event is the question.

 

[SuspectUsual]

But how to delay the start of the second event is the question

My thought would be to prevent it being broadcast until the train has both passed the (I presume) trigger point and also has a signal aspect allowing access to the platform

 

[Horizon22]

This will just be coincidental timing, which will occasionally happen and would be pretty hard if not impossible to remove in its entirety depending on when exactly the non-stopping train triggers the berth and when the stop comes in.

They would be driven off differing zones based on the same CIS; you'd have to group them together otherwise which would likely lead to one of the announcements (probably the passenger one) being delayed for some time - and thus being useless - or worse, not playing at all.

At big, open, busy stations - like Stratford or Clapham Junction - I don't think there's a way you won't get overlapping announcements as sound naturally travels and there will be trains every few minutes with the pre-departure announcement maybe lasting 45-90 seconds. I imagine that same is true of any large European station that has platform announcements.

 

[lightning76]

At Leighton Buzzard up trains are first announced ("Platform 4 for the 1017 London Northwestern Railway service to London Euston") when they are at Bletchley, so the xx17 and xx47 fast trains are announced shortly before the xx12 and xx42 stoppers (which are overtaken) arrive. The stopping trains will then be fully announced with all the calling points immediately afterwards, causing much confusion amongst non-regulars.

However any announcement of a departure is lucky to get played entirely, as they are cut off midway by announcements of non stopping trains ("The train approaching platform 1 does not stop here. Please hold on to pushchairs, wheelchairs and your belongings") every time an Avanti passes, which is quite a lot. (The fast line platforms are fenced off and usually inaccessible making the constant barrage of these announcements pointless.)

I sometimes wonder if anyone senior has ever visited the station, and if so whether they have ever thought "hang on, this is all a bit rubbish".

 

[edwin_m]

This will just be coincidental timing, which will occasionally happen and would be pretty hard if not impossible to remove in its entirety depending on when exactly the non-stopping train triggers the berth and when the stop comes in.

They would be driven off differing zones based on the same CIS; you'd have to group them together otherwise which would likely lead to one of the announcements (probably the passenger one) being delayed for some time - and thus being useless - or worse, not playing at all.

If the system is only based on berths then it it pretty primitive. If Traksy can see the signal aspects then the CIS should also.

They usually use a male voice on one platform and a female voice on the opposite platform.

Just as long as they don't start arguing about the red zone and the white zone.

 

[Horizon22]

If the system is only based on berths then it it pretty primitive. If Traksy can see the signal aspects then the CIS should also.

That's like comparing apples and oranges. A signalling maps overlay is very different from a CIS software system.

 

[edwin_m]

That's like comparing apples and oranges. A signalling maps overlay is very different from a CIS software system.

But the data feed is available, the system is clearly deficient if it can't make use of it especially when it results in hazards like the one mentioned in the OP.