Overhead wires between Basingstoke & Weymouth

[Train wasp]

I’m not sure if this has been talked about on the forum. But on Southwest trains Yahoo discussion group there is a discussion about overhead wires possibly being install at some point in the future between Basingstoke and Weymouth. This is due to the electrical equipment becoming life expired.



A Preliminary study report can be found at the RSSB web site.
www.rssb.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/pdf/reports/Research/T950_rb_final.pdf

 

[Lrd]

Also between East Croydon and Preston Park, everyone seems to of overlooked that part.

 

[Eagle]

Life expired? The part through Dorset was only electrified in 1988!

This is just a study exercise, nothing will come of it.

 

[Schnellzug]

Equipment life expired? It was only extended beyond Poole in '88. Third rail equipment more or less lasts for ever, doesn't it.
But the DfT or NR or one or other of them has been talking about replacing thrid rail with overhead generally, haven't they; i saw it in a Magazine recently. And the Desiros were designed to be easily convertible, so I don't suppose it should be an absolutely preposterous idea.
But why from basingstoke? Are they envisaging Dc to there & AC from there? Why make everything more complicated ?

 

[route:oxford]

Equipment life expired? It was only extended beyond Poole in '88. Third rail equipment more or less lasts for ever, doesn't it.
But the DfT or NR or one or other of them has been talking about replacing thrid rail with overhead generally, haven't they; i saw it in a Magazine recently. And the Desiros were designed to be easily convertible, so I don't suppose it should be an absolutely preposterous idea.
But why from basingstoke? Are they envisaging Dc to there & AC from there? Why make everything more complicated ?

Basingstoke is the most sensible really.

Connect with the GWML electrification at Reading and you have 25kv overheads all the way from Southampton to Scotland.

 

[Lrd]

Basingstoke is the most sensible really.

Connect with the GWML electrification at Reading and you have 25kv overheads all the way from Southampton to Scotland.

Apart from Oxford to Coventry...

 

[Ivo]

Surely it's possible (if a bit awkward) via the North and/or West London Lines...?

 

[Lrd]

Surely it's possible (if a bit awkward) via the North and/or West London Lines...?

I think they are a mixture of Third Rail and Overhead, especially the WLL.

 

[Class172]

Surely it's possible (if a bit awkward) via the North and/or West London Lines...?

Or via Brighton and City Thameslink.

 

[Eagle]

Or via Brighton and City Thameslink.

How do you get from Thameslink to the WCML?

 

[Class172]

How do you get from Thameslink to the WCML?

Well you can get to Scotland via the ECML.

 

[asylumxl]

How do you get from Thameslink to the WCML?

Electrify the Marston Vale line as part of the East to West rail link project. Job done.

 

[NSE]

You can go BML to East Croydon then Clapham, WLL and WCML and beyond

 

[Eagle]

You can go BML to East Croydon then Clapham, WLL and WCML and beyond

Via Horsham and Sutton would be quicker...

 

[NSE]

Mr Eagle, I was literally discussing that in the out of date signage thread :P or that route :P

 

[Helvellyn]

Life expired? The part through Dorset was only electrified in 1988!

This is just a study exercise, nothing will come of it.

But it was done on the cheap, so west of Branksome you can only run a 4-car 450 or 5-car 444 in service. Going to cause fun and games for the Olympics!

 

[infobleep]

Is that why there is only a 5 car train stopping at Clapham Junction at 17.46 when clearly an 8 car train would be much better for the numbers of passengers trying to board it. The 18.52 12 car goes straight through, stopping at West Byfleet instead of Clapham junction. It's the only fast train to stop at West Byfleet in any direct I believe.

 

[Lrd]

Is that why there is only a 5 car train stopping at Clapham Junction at 17.46 when clearly an 8 car train would be much better for the numbers of passengers trying to board it. The 18.52 12 car goes straight through, stopping at West Byfleet instead of Clapham junction. It's the only fast train to stop at West Byfleet in any direct I believe.

In the peaks they normally run as 10 car 444, and split/join at either Southampton or more commonly, Bournemouth.

 

[HSTEd]

I thought the major cost saving measure on the electrification to Weymouth was the use of thyristor based rectifiers.....

 

[Schnellzug]

But it was done on the cheap, so west of Branksome you can only run a 4-car 450 or 5-car 444 in service. Going to cause fun and games for the Olympics!

but that's probably to do with platform lengths. They could run 442s in multiple, albeit with one unit out of service.
The olympics are a red herring; it's only the dinghy sailing, tens of thousands of people are not going to want to go there for that, however much Councils with their white elephant Road Improvements and Park & ride Schemes might like to think so.

 

[route:oxford]

Apart from Oxford to Coventry...

Well, that one is inevitable.

Got to give the politicians some good news to hold onto and announce before an election.

 

[Schnellzug]

Ah, but it'd be logical. That isn't always- what am i saying? Is very rarely a factor in politicians' decisions.
See: terminating Crossrail (or whatever the current name for it is) at Maidenhead, was it?

 

[ajdunlop]

Is there any reason why it couldn't be DC to Basingstoke and even in Dorset and AC for Basingstoke to Poole? Eurostars seemed to cope with AC and DC when going into Waterloo. Then wire Basingstoke to Reading (and Coventry to Oxford) allowing XC and Freight services to be OH and increasing the reliability of SWT services for the OH part. Then in the future replace the rest of the DC. This would also allow some SWT services to go to Paddington for diversions or just another routing or even as an extension to Crossrail. I suppose if HS2 happens there may be an argument of making it easier for people to be able to get from Southampton, Portsmouth and Dorset to join HS2.

 

[Eagle]

...however much Councils with their white elephant Road Improvements and Park & ride Schemes might like to think so.

If you think the Weymouth Relief Road is a white elephant you clearly never tried driving there on a weekend before it opened...

 

[bangor-toad]

Hi,
Does it matter if the electrification is 3rd rail or overhead AC?

All the services currently using the area are modern(ish) EMU's or DEMU's.

The EMUs are (technically) already able to use either source of power. (OK, I know the 444's and 450's don't have panto's but they would never need them on thieir current destinations)

The DEMUs (Voyagers) are currently flirting with DfT offering to provide pantograph cars. Modern modular power electronics will be used and it is very simple to add 3rd rail pickup (Bombadier already have the technology from the Electrostar family)

The cost of re-doing the electrification infrastructure will surely outweigh the costs of specifying dual mode power on any new build or newly allocated stock?

Cheers,
Jason

 

[Schnellzug]

If you think the Weymouth Relief Road is a white elephant you clearly never tried driving there on a weekend before it opened...

Not talking about that, talking about the Council's stupid Traffic lights.
And Dorchester Park & Ride Scheme, which involves driving to the Weymouth Park & Ride site (which is enormously under-used as well), and then getting a bus back to Dorchster the way you came .

 

[starrymarkb]

I thought the Dorchester park and ride was market days only from the football ground.

And the A354 was horiffic even on a weekday. Weymouth pretty much has one single carridgeway road in and out... I take it the relief road has eliminated the hairpins and low bridge?

 

[Eagle]

I thought the Dorchester park and ride was market days only from the football ground.

And the A354 was horiffic even on a weekday. Weymouth pretty much has one single carridgeway road in and out... I take it the relief road has eliminated the hairpins and low bridge?

There's a newer park and ride in Weymouth, behind the Morrisons in Radipole.

The Bincombe hairpin is consigned to history as the roads that formed it have been ripped up. The low bridge is still there of course, just now the main road doesn't pass under it.

 

[HSTEd]

Hi,
Does it matter if the electrification is 3rd rail or overhead AC?

All the services currently using the area are modern(ish) EMU's or DEMU's.

The EMUs are (technically) already able to use either source of power. (OK, I know the 444's and 450's don't have panto's but they would never need them on thieir current destinations)

The DEMUs (Voyagers) are currently flirting with DfT offering to provide pantograph cars. Modern modular power electronics will be used and it is very simple to add 3rd rail pickup (Bombadier already have the technology from the Electrostar family)

The cost of re-doing the electrification infrastructure will surely outweigh the costs of specifying dual mode power on any new build or newly allocated stock?

Cheers,
Jason

The 442s cant use both, but thats because they are the last of the Mark 1 EMUs for all intents and purposes.
You can't add the current third rail pickup to the Voyager family of trains as the "lightweight" bogies have nowhere you can attach the shoebeam to at the current time, you would probably require an expensive development programme.

But I agree, electrification is electrification whether it is AC or DC, money spent on ripping up perfectly functional third rail to replace it with OHLE would be better spent putting up OHLE/Third rail somewhere else.
It also increases resentment of the south amongst the people who have to squeeze into ancient diesel trains that wll apparently at this rate last until the national retirement age.

 

[swt_passenger]

but that's probably to do with platform lengths. .

It isn't - it is definitely to do with power supply limitations. There's a part of the sectional appendix that shows the various limitations class by class, and only single 444s are allowed beyond Poole. They even had to make a special case to take an 8.458 down there for regenerative braking trials...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...Going to cause fun and games for the Olympics!

The permanent 2 tph service to Weymouth was the fundamental improvement made for the Olympics, and it is all that was ever planned for SWT's services. I agree with those who reckon Olympic offshore racing isn't a spectator sport - and I just don't think there will be any significant extra load on the railway during the racing - although there may be some extra business transporting teams before the event...