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overhead D.C catenary.

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Phoenix

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Does anyone know where it would be possible in the uk to find any remaining dc catenary from the Woodhead route.
Or any other dc line even if it just some old masts.
:?
 
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Mojo

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I don't think the masts are the same, but the Tyne & Wear Metro uses 1500 V DC which was the voltage used on the Woodhead route. There are also tram systems such as NET which run off lower DC voltages.
 

Phoenix

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ah right cheer's it's just cause i was considering a trip to that area to see what i can find of the woodhead route.
 

Meld

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The only place you will see any original Woodhead OHL gantries will be on the Glossop / Hadfield branch out of Manchester Piccadilly, IIRC it caused a lot of headaches for the engineers when the line was upgraded for 25Kv as apart from all the catenary needing replacing all the insulators had to be replaced as well.
 

Phoenix

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cheers for that it really helped plus i studpid as it is it basically pointed out i had taken some phots of some at manchester piccadily.
 

Nym

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Between ashburys and guide bridge theres the old pWay with some DC gantries if I'm remembering right, they have v. small insulators, look about 2000VDC quality...
 

Nym

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only ever seen em in passing running through at about 20mph... I'll get off at ashburys and see about geting some photos next time I get travel expenses somwhere
 

Phoenix

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yeah let me know when you get some then i can see if it's worth a look up there thanks.
 

O L Leigh

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There's still a fair amount of the old 1500V DC gantries still in use on the GEML between Liv St and Shenfield/Southend Vic. Admittedly they are somewhat modified for the 25kV AC system currently in use.

O L Leigh
 

16CSVT2700

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Ashton Moss Jn to Denton Jn still has some DC gantries in place albeit no wires.
 

CosherB

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All the OLE gantries on the Manchester Metrolink Altrincham branch, from Old Trafford to Altrincham, are on the trackbed of the Manchester South Junction & Altrincham Railway. This was electrified in about 1930 at 1,500 VDC, and though it was later converted to 25KV AC and then to whatever the trams use (600dc?) the masts are the 1,500VDC originals. Very substantial!
 

Nym

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NET in Nottingham is 750V DC overhead. the reason DC is used is because it doesn't arc as easily

They use DC for trams because it's more appropriate for the traction methods. DC Arcs just as easily as AC at the same RMS levels...

DC is better because you're getting 100%power 100% of the time, and you don't need whacking great big power equipment to re-phase the supply
 

CosherB

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DC at low voltages (1500 and below) tends to be used for older systems becuase it's technically simpler. DC supply, DC traction motors, no need for transformers or rectifiers on the vehicles. The downside is you need more complexs lineside equipment to convert the high voltage AC grid power to low voltage DC. Also, the lower the voltage the higher the current - so you need much heavier OLE and the volts drop with distance is far highre so you need power feeds to the OLE every few miles.

Main lines these days are high voltage (25Kv) AC which allows much lighter OLE becuase currents are lower and simpler power collection from the grid (which is high voltage AC) and much greater distance between pwer feeds into the OLE because the lower current means less voltage drop with distance.

The disadvantages of AC traction used to be the complexity of the on-board tnasformers and rectifiers to convert the power to low voltage DC for the traction motors, which led to reliabilty problems with early AC locos on BR. These days high voltage electronic control has been developed, as have AC traction motors. Pendos, for instance, still use transformers to reduce the voltage, but instead of rectification to DC, the AC waveform is electronically modified to feed the AC motors, the frequency varying to modulate motor speed. They can also use regenerative braking, where the motors generate power and feed it back into the OLE while retarding the train. Clever stuff to do that with AC, with the required phase matching.

CS
 

TheSlash

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DC at low voltages (1500 and below) tends to be used for older systems becuase it's technically simpler. DC supply, DC traction motors, no need for transformers or rectifiers on the vehicles. The downside is you need more complexs lineside equipment to convert the high voltage AC grid power to low voltage DC. Also, the lower the voltage the higher the current - so you need much heavier OLE and the volts drop with distance is far highre so you need power feeds to the OLE every few miles.

Main lines these days are high voltage (25Kv) AC which allows much lighter OLE becuase currents are lower and simpler power collection from the grid (which is high voltage AC) and much greater distance between pwer feeds into the OLE because the lower current means less voltage drop with distance.

The disadvantages of AC traction used to be the complexity of the on-board tnasformers and rectifiers to convert the power to low voltage DC for the traction motors, which led to reliabilty problems with early AC locos on BR. These days high voltage electronic control has been developed, as have AC traction motors. Pendos, for instance, still use transformers to reduce the voltage, but instead of rectification to DC, the AC waveform is electronically modified to feed the AC motors, the frequency varying to modulate motor speed. They can also use regenerative braking, where the motors generate power and feed it back into the OLE while retarding the train. Clever stuff to do that with AC, with the required phase matching.

CS
Clever stuff, but a b*stard on the Southern. Because the power source is DC, the signalling is AC, so we then have to spend lots of time, effort and money making sure the nice AC motors don't start talking to the signalling system. Thats the major problem with 458's, over sensitive AC leakage detectors
 

Rich9003

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The original direct Lancaster (Green Ayre) to Morecambe route was electrified in 1908 at 6600V using overhead wires in a pioneering scheme and evidence of this still survives. I suspect that this may have been AC electrification, however hopefully you might still find this interesting as a surprising amount of infrastructure from this pioneering scheme still remains even though the line has been closed and lifted for the best part of 40 years. The line also served as a test bed for technologies that were but into place when the west coast main line was electrified in the 1960s.

The trackbed is easily walkable as most of it has been converted into a footpath and cycle track. Items of railway infrastructure remain today, particularly the remains of catenary supports attached to overbridges. The line was operating at a profit when it was closed as a result of one of the more stupid recommendations in the Beeching report.

The link below provides a good guide to the background behind the electrification and what can be seen now.

http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/electrif.htm
 

furryfeet

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ashton moss south - masts still in place, without wires.

most of the hadfield / glossop line still makes use of the DC masts

also metrolink between trafford bar and timperley
 

eezypeazy

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I don't think the masts are the same, but the Tyne and Wear Metro uses 1500 V DC which was the voltage used on the Woodhead route. There are also tram systems such as NET which run off lower DC voltages.

The Tyne and Wear Metro reused a significant quantity of redundant trolleybus overhead poles, which were being removed from the streets of Bradford, Teesside and (still at that time) Newcastle. Normal practice was to cut off the poles at ground level as they were removed; this made them just the right height for Metro! You can spot them easily on the system - they are the round section poles used for supporting span wires at such places as West Jesmond.

Regards

eezypeazy
 

ungreat

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I used to like the Manchester to Bury units(class 504 I think),which,if I remember correctly,were 1200V DC 3rd rail which was unique in this country
 
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