Overground guards?

[MCR247]

Hi, I was on an LO service today and there was a guard in saloon opening/closing doors from the local door controls and then there was a chap sat in the back cab looking rather bored.

Is this normal?

 

[Jordy]

The person in the back cab may have been off duty staff, I have seen the doors being operated from inside the saloon on LO before so yes I presume its fairly normal!

 

[MCR247]

The person in the back cab may have been off duty staff, I have seen the doors being operated from inside the saloon on LO before so yes I presume its fairly normal!

Ok, I never thought about that I thought it might be safety or something
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Also, I love how the ELL has 4 car trains and is empty off peak and then some bright chap(!) ordered the NLL 378s as 3 cars originally and they are rammed off peak!

 

[Jordy]

The NLL 378s are going to be 4 car very soon, they just have to finish off lengthening the platforms first! All the 378s will eventually be 4 car. The ELL is quite pleasant off peak when its so empty!

 

[yorkie]

Talking of NLL, there was a +1 connection at Gospel Oak, from an eastbound NLL to an eastbound Goblin, cross-platform, about 25 passengers went for it and the doors were shut on the 150 just as the passengers approached the train.

I asked someone if this was normal, and she looked at me in disgust for daring to talk to her.

Everyone had to wait 15 minutes. I wouldn't blame them for using alternative transport in future. I was tempted to cycle the rest of the way to Crouch Hill but I didn't know the way so I waited. I reckon I'd have got there quicker though.

This is in contrast to the Metropolitan Line, where in my experience the staff do not take delight in making passengers wait, and run the railway for the benefit of the passengers, which is most welcome!

 

[Daniel]

Talking of NLL, there was a +1 connection at Gospel Oak, from an eastbound NLL to an eastbound Goblin, cross-platform, about 25 passengers went for it and the doors were shut on the 150 just as the passengers approached the train.

I asked someone if this was normal, and she looked at me in disgust for daring to talk to her.

Same happened to me before, as we pulled in I noticed the doors were locked, train remained stationary just long enough for everyone to rush up to it, before they realised the doors were locked and the train departed, (in service).

This is in contrast to the Metropolitan Line, where in my experience the staff do not take delight in making passengers wait, and run the railway for the benefit of the passengers, which is most welcome!

^.^

 

[GodAtum]

Luckily I've never had any reason to use the LO!

 

[313103]

Hi, I was on an LO service today and there was a guard in saloon opening/closing doors from the local door controls and then there was a chap sat in the back cab looking rather bored.

Is this normal?

As a Guard on LO, the Guard would be in the train operating from the local door control panels but just closing the doors (drivers do the opening).

If there was a chap in the back cab he is either a driver or another Guard travelling pass. This person would have no interface with the running of the train. Perhaps that is why he looked bored.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Talking of NLL, there was a +1 connection at Gospel Oak, from an eastbound NLL to an eastbound Goblin, cross-platform, about 25 passengers went for it and the doors were shut on the 150 just as the passengers approached the train.

I asked someone if this was normal, and she looked at me in disgust for daring to talk to her.

Was this a scheduled connection? or was the train you was on running early? As i think you will find some trains especially in the peak are are timed as an :15 arrival off the NLL and the departure to Barking is :15 so in that instance it is not a booked connection.

With regards the female member of staff i cannot comment but from experience a couple of people before your good self probably had a go at her because they have missed ( and i use the term loosely) a train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Same happened to me before, as we pulled in I noticed the doors were locked, train remained stationary just long enough for everyone to rush up to it, before they realised the doors were locked and the train departed, (in service).
^.^

Again same question to you about the train being a booked connection. As an aside once the doors are closed and the Guard has given the signal for departure, the Guard cannot give one back to the driver unless it is an emergency and NOT because passengers are waiting on the platform.
Now that last bit may sound and often is harsh it is not done on purpose, the problem we have is that the company run a Key Performance Indicator (kpi) as well as Public Performance Measure (ppm)and that is if the trains dont leave at the stated correct time it is often the Guards who have to answer to the powers that be and if that doesnt suit the company possible disciplinary action maybe taken.


As an aside Yorkie what was you doing 500 yds from where i live? at Crouch Hill.

 

[yorkie]

Was this a scheduled connection? or was the train you was on running early? As i think you will find some trains especially in the peak are are timed as an :15 arrival off the NLL and the departure to Barking is :15 so in that instance it is not a booked connection.

It was 49 and 50. I am not sure what is defined as a booked connection, but it would be sensible to wait a few seconds to avoid inconveniencing 25 passengers. However some railways don't operate for the convenience of passengers.

With regards the female member of staff i cannot comment but from experience a couple of people before your good self probably had a go at her because they have missed ( and i use the term loosely) a train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

She was just a random person who also missed the train. Not staff. No-one said a word on the platform or on the train, I got the impression that people don't talk to each other there.

Again same question to you about the train being a booked connection. As an aside once the doors are closed and the Guard has given the signal for departure, the Guard cannot give one back to the driver unless it is an emergency and NOT because passengers are waiting on the platform.
Now that last bit may sound and often is harsh it is not done on purpose, the problem we have is that the company run a Key Performance Indicator (kpi) as well as Public Performance Measure (ppm)and that is if the trains dont leave at the stated correct time it is often the Guards who have to answer to the powers that be and if that doesnt suit the company possible disciplinary action maybe taken.

In other words, the railway is run for the benefit of managers and statisticians, not for the actual customers. Not your fault, but that's the way it is. Lines will close as a result, if this continues. The Stranraer line may as well close now to be honest.

As an aside Yorkie what was you doing 500 yds from where i live? at Crouch Hill.

I explored the Northern Heights. Nice route. Surprising that it closed. Mostly full of joggers for some reason.

 

[MCR247]

Is it possible to make NLL services more frequent like every 10 minutes as it looks like they need it

 

[tbtc]

Is it possible to make NLL services more frequent like every 10 minutes as it looks like they need it

No, due to the random paths needed to be kept free for freight

 

[MCR247]

Oh right, but won't there be less freight if this new Nuneaton chord gets built or something?

 

[313103]

Is it possible to make NLL services more frequent like every 10 minutes as it looks like they need it

NLL services do run every ten minutes during the peak periods. Six trains an hour to Willesden Junction then three trains an hour to Clapham junction and three trains an hour to Richmond.

It is planned to run eight trains an hour but i think that is for the 2012 olympics, that will give a train on average every 7 minutes.

From the 2011 timetable Sunday services will double in frequency from 30 minutes to every 15 minutes.

Sorry i cant give any more info.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

It was 49 and 50. I am not sure what is defined as a booked connection, but it would be sensible to wait a few seconds to avoid inconveniencing 25 passengers. However some railways don't operate for the convenience of passengers.

Yet some people think the railway operates specifically for the convenience of themselves.

 

[yorkie]

Yet some people think the railway operates specifically for the convenience of themselves.

Who thinks that?

 

[Ferret]

It was 49 and 50. I am not sure what is defined as a booked connection, but it would be sensible to wait a few seconds to avoid inconveniencing 25 passengers. However some railways don't operate for the convenience of passengers.

I guess the term 'booked connection' refers to the minimum changeover time (I presume this is still 5 mins!) recommended by the timetables. In which case, a +1 isn't really legitimate! sounds like a poor piece of timetabling to me though - I guess lots of people look to change trains there?

 

[devon_metro]

I hardly think you can complain about missing a +1 when it is a 15 minute frequency. Hourly - fine, but with <14 minutes to wait till the next train it's hardly very long.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, I wouldn't make travel plans where I had to make that connection, but common sense would see the doors left open for just a few more seconds. This would match my experiences of interchanges on London Underground, where the drivers do not deliberately close their doors just as another train is opening it's doors alongside, and wait a few seconds for people to change trains. I thought that the 'Overground' was meant to be similar standards to the Underground, and I thought that would mean applying common sense.

Those who aren't convinced should go to somewhere like Harrow-on-the-Hill or Chalfont & Latimer to see how it should be done. It doesn't cause delays, and the staff aren't deliberately annoying the passengers. It works. It's sensible. Passengers are put first.

 

[313103]

You see if a train Guard or Driver waited 30 seconds more then he/she at the start of the journey what about if he/she did that at every station. The analogy would be that the train (in this case London Overground) would arrive into Barking 6 minutes late therefore failing PPM which then causes a fine from Network Rail and if this then causes a delay to further service that cost is then added. A prime example of this was a train leaving Willesden Junction 2 minutes late this caused a freight train travelling North to Scotland losing its path and Silverlink had to pay the freight company, not only that the freight train caused other trains to be delayed en route as it was running late. That is a knock on effect from leaving a station 2 minutes late.

 

[anonymous0101]

As a Guard on LO, the Guard would be in the train operating from the local door control panels but just closing the doors (drivers do the opening).

I'm sure i've noticed Guards re-opening the doors from the rear cab and not just closing them,