Overcrowding on Exeter services today [2/11]

[infobleep]

There was server overcrowding on on 15.22 Clapham Junction to Exeter service today and many people were left behind. The next train, 16.22 was then started short at Basingstoke due to the numbers travelling.

The South West Trains Twitter response was:

@kmurphy59_ Sorry for the problems today. We'll be feeding this back for review to prevent this happening again.

They say they will review this to stop this happening again. Would could South West Trains do to stop it happening again? It was unseasonally nice weather this week/weekend.

I think they may have had a promotion on so perhaps they could scrap that so less people travel in future. I doubt they could strengthen trains at all due to maintenance issues and train hiring costs. Perhaps many chose to travel at the last minute. I don't know what model is used to run the Exeter diesel trains in terms of leasing costs.

 

[Rapidash]

This half-term must be one of the warmest end of October's we've had in years. Torbay was just stuffed to the gunwales with late-booking family's. Local services were definitely more crowded than I would have expected.

Would be interesting to know how far the overcrowding lasted for - Can't have been all the way to Central, surely?

The Waterloo - EXD is run by 159s usally with 3 or 6 carriages. And 2 on some days!

 

[bigdelboy]

Did I hear on the radio there was engineering works Winchester to Basingstoke?

How often is it that despite being a sunday and there being loads of stock in sidings that trains are left too short and unable to cope with demand.

I suspect many on that train were perhaps only going to woking/Basingstoke ... leaving those needing to go past Basingstoke stranded?

I am only guessing .... but as a passenger I sometimes feel like engineering works are an excuse to run a substandard and overcrowded service to maximise profit!

Teach the customer a lesson not to travel on sundays!

I could be totally wrong with what has happened today. Actually I wasn'tdriving today so I couldn't have heard that today! Perhaps yesterday.

 

[CC 72100]

And 2 on some days!

I've never seen 2 coaches by themselves on a Waterloo run, only on the 17:46 Exeter - Axminster.

As for the Devon metro services being busy, you can imagine my surprise at the last train before the Exeter city match (the 14:18 from EXD) being a lone 150/1 yesterday. I know very little about diagramming, but I thought things would be planned so that that train was worked by a pair of some sorts. (A la Torbay school children 6 car)

 

[PHILIPE]

I've never seen 2 coaches by themselves on a Waterloo run, only on the 17:46 Exeter - Axminster.

As for the Devon metro services being busy, you can imagine my surprise at the last train before the Exeter city match (the 14:18 from EXD) being a lone 150/1 yesterday. I know very little about diagramming, but I thought things would be planned so that that train was worked by a pair of some sorts. (A la Torbay school children 6 car)

Probably not possible without robbing something else thereby just transferring the problem elsewhere.

 

[hassaanhc]

There was engineering work earlier at Basingstoke. Train to Farnborough then connecting bus to Andover was shown on the screen at Waterloo. Sounds like it was one of the first through trains to run?
Cancellation to avoid excessive dwells after getting wedged is exactly the ammunition that certain people need for a "passengers are treated like cattle and an inconvenience" comment and gives an extremely poor impression of the railway :?. I'm hoping there's more behind that, there surely must be.

 

[CC 72100]

Probably not possible without robbing something else thereby just transferring the problem elsewhere.

Sorry, I probably didn't explain it fully.

The Torbay schools service is 6 coaches, 2 of those being extra. However it is one of 4-car diagrams in the first place.

What I was suggesting was that with the 2,3 and 4 car possibilities on the Devon metro, that the diagrams are done as such that the 14:18 is one of the trains operated by a 4 car - ie. efforts are made to make sure that one of the 4-car diagrams that is out and about anyway covers that particular train.

I'm sure there's a good enough reason why not, reasons that we the Joe public don't know about, but knowing the different train lengths on the services, it just felt odd to me that a train with a high demand ended up as just a two car.

 

[Rapidash]

I'm sure there's a good enough reason why not, reasons that we the Joe public don't know about, but knowing the different train lengths on the services, it just felt odd to me that a train with a high demand ended up as just a two car.

The Pacers seem to be having a rough few weeks, so I suppose its possible the fitters are curled up in the depot weeping in despair. Only 4 more years.....

 

[3141]

I travelled on SWT West of England Line services on Thursday 30 October and Saturday 1 November. The 0920 from Overton to Waterloo on 30 October had six coaches and people were standing in all of them. The guard apologised for the overcrowding and said they had strengthened some services but had nothing left to strengthen that one. I got off at Basingstoke and waited for the following train from Poole, which had ten coaches, and got a seat in the last one.

On Saturday 1 November I was on the 1020 from Overton, consisting of five coaches. There were standing passengers in the first four but I got a seat in the last coach. At Basingstoke many more passengers got on and every coach was full. The guard apologised and said they had strengthened the train from its normal three coaches to five, using the last available unit.

For the 0641 on Thursday from Exeter St. Davids that becomes the 0847 from Salisbury and 0920 from Overton I can understand that there may be no spare stock to strengthen it. I assume that more units will be receiving some kind of maintenance at weekends, when the requirements are normally less, which would explain why only a class 158 was available to strengthen the 1020 on Saturday. The only option available to SWT, I should think, is to review the maintenance schedules so as to increase the available stock during future half-term holidays, and then catch up afterwards with any jobs that have been postponed.

 

[455driver]

I've never seen 2 coaches by themselves on a Waterloo run, only on the 17:46 Exeter - Axminster.

I have, once, I did get a picture of it but cant remember where it was.

 

[Kite159]

The 0920 service from Overton to Waterloo being the first 'off-peak' service to Waterloo and the 2nd service which comes from Exeter. If I get it from Grateley I'm normally hard-pressed to get a seat, even during term-time.

More of the evening peak trains should skip Woking and maybe even Basingstoke (or make Basingstoke pick-up only), that should reduce some of the loading of Woking & Basingstoke commuters who use it due to it running fast.

Imagine what it would have been like if the 50% promotion was still on.

 

[CC 72100]

I have, once, I did get a picture of it but cant remember where it was.

Fair enough - can see why it's not a regular feature though.

 

[TEW]

I have, once, I did get a picture of it but cant remember where it was.

You do see 158s running Waterloo-Salisbury stoppers on there own sometimes. Off Peak a 158 can cope with the loadings on those services anyway.

 

[Kite159]

In the past couple years, I've only seen a 158 solo on a Waterloo to Salisbury stopper once, and that was the last service of the day.

 

[fgwrich]

I can tell you now, having a single 158 on one of the late evening services out of London Waterloo isn't fun. I was coming back from a gig a few months ago and was rather surprised when a 2 car was allocated, full and standing 10 minutes before departure. I swapped that for a slightly less fuller but still busy 444 - This being after 22:00! They maybe just about suitable during some of the Off Peak Salisbury Stoppers during the day, but not in the evenings.

 

[infobleep]

08:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 09:34*

This train will no longer call at Richmond.*
Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8. Service full and standing from Reading.*
This is due to an unusually large passenger flow.*

Message Received :03/11/2014 08:14*

http://m.journeycheck.com/southwest...114&webMsg=false&engWorksPeriod=&serviceTime=

Having just 4 carriages doesn't help when you have an unusually large passenger flow. Of course perhaps the unusually large passenger flow has been caused by the usually short formed train. I'm not sure how unusual short formations are these days. Still there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[embers25]

I've never seen 2 coaches by themselves on a Waterloo run, only on the 17:46 Exeter - Axminster.

I've been on a single 158 several times from Salisbury to Exeter and once all the way from Waterloo which did get a little snug as far as Salisbury. I've also had 2+3 from Waterloo where the back 3 went to Bristol just leaving 2 for Exeter. 3x158 are becoming more common too. It does add to the variety seen from my parents house by Pinhoe!

 

[muddythefish]

Whole situation on that line strikes me as barmy.

In loco hauled days trains were never less than 8 coaches and sometimes 10 or 11.

And they were well used.

How can you replace that kind of demand with a 3-car 158 ?

 

[Drsatan]

Whole situation on that line strikes me as barmy.

In loco hauled days trains were never less than 8 coaches and sometimes 10 or 11.

And they were well used.

How can you replace that kind of demand with a 3-car 158 ?

The class 50s used to haul Waterloo to Exeter St Davids services were withdrawn in 1991, the class 47s drafted in to replace them were wearing out, and the Mk2s used needed refurbishment. The most cost-effective option was to replace them with DMUs.

NSE did consider a new design of long-distance DMU - what would later become the class 168 - but as Regional Railways had a surplus of 158s, 30 were converted for NSE's used. Bear in mind this net capacity reduction was acceptable as passenger levels were expected to remain static.

In short, you can blame BR

 

[Xavi]

The class 50s used to haul Waterloo to Exeter St Davids services were withdrawn in 1991, the class 47s drafted in to replace them were wearing out, and the Mk2s used needed refurbishment. The most cost-effective option was to replace them with DMUs.

NSE did consider a new design of long-distance DMU - what would later become the class 168 - but as Regional Railways had a surplus of 158s, 30 were converted for NSE's used. Bear in mind this net capacity reduction was acceptable as passenger levels were expected to remain static.

In short, you can blame BR

Rolling stock provision on this route actually works rather well. The 2-car trains mentioned are very much the exception due to operational issues. The norm these days is 6, 9 or 10 east of Salisbury and 3 or 6 west of Salisbury. There is the odd carefully planned 9 west and 3 east.

 

[TEW]

The occasional 9-car West of Salisbury is purely for operational reasons and one set is locked out. 3 East of Salisbury isn't just the odd train. It's the majority of Salisbury stopping services and also Exeter services early morning/late evening.

 

[Xavi]

The occasional 9-car West of Salisbury is purely for operational reasons and one set is locked out. 3 East of Salisbury isn't just the odd train. It's the majority of Salisbury stopping services and also Exeter services early morning/late evening.

Fair enough. Off-peak rather than odd for east. Operational rather than odd for west. Matching rolling stock to demand is pretty good though.

 

[TEW]

The only time I'd say capacity isn't well matched to demand is some of the evening services from Waterloo. These are normally 3-car 159s only but are often very busy.

 

[infobleep]

The 18.27 week day service from Clapham Junction is always very packed looking. Never tried to board it myself. Usually ends up leaving late.

 

[TEW]

But that service runs at near enough maximum length as it is a 9-car 159.

 

[455driver]

The 18.27 week day service from Clapham Junction is always very packed looking. Never tried to board it myself. Usually ends up leaving late.

As you well know, that is the first fast service to call at Clapham jn for an hour and a half, that is why it is busy. The only 'solution' is to make it first stop Woking, is that what you want?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How many route miles is it (approx) from where the trains leave the 3rd rail at wherever it diverges from the SWML and Exeter St Davids. Could the route be electrified to eventually allow the running of 444s, 450s or a future build of 444s (but with the sloped cabs and whatever other changes needed to meet the current crash regs)?

 

[bigdelboy]

How many route miles is it (approx) from where the trains leave the 3rd rail at wherever it diverges from the SWML and Exeter St Davids. Could the route be electrified to eventually allow the running of 444s, 450s or a future build of 444s (but with the sloped cabs and whatever other changes needed to meet the current crash regs)?

The case for Basingstoke to Salisbury probably stands up well. This would now be overhead. Salisbury to Exeter is trickier ... 4rep+4tc solutions as per waterloo-Bournemouth-Weymouth were proposed in the past .... and a diesel push-pull for this still might work. A Salisbury-Southampton electrification would then also make sense.

 

[3141]

How many route miles is it (approx) from where the trains leave the 3rd rail at wherever it diverges from the SWML and Exeter St Davids. Could the route be electrified to eventually allow the running of 444s, 450s or a future build of 444s (but with the sloped cabs and whatever other changes needed to meet the current crash regs)?

The line to Exeter diverges at Worting Junction, about three miles west of Basingstoke, and from there it's about 33 miles to Salisbury and 122 miles to Exeter St. Davids.

 

[infobleep]

As you well know, that is the first fast service to call at Clapham jn for an hour and a half, that is why it is busy. The only 'solution' is to make it first stop Woking, is that what you want?

I'm not wanting anything personally. It was a statement of a service that is busy, given people were mentioning such things.

There are no solutions to the 18.27 problem without crossrail 2 or similar. End of. However it is a busy train.