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Overcharged on Oyster due to Southeastern Engineering Works

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CyrusWuff

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You stated they advertised “You may use your ticket on London Underground services at no extra cost"”

Oyster/PAYG is your ticket in this situation. It shouldn’t matter. Shouldn’t.
Oyster PAYG/Contactless are emphatically not tickets, given they can't be used in conjunction with a paper ticket to/from a location outwith the PAYG area without touching in/out as appropriate. Rather, they're more akin to an authority to travel (and Contactless muddies the waters further given you're not actually charged until the end of the day, or a few days later.)

LU's internal information regarding ticket acceptance makes it clear that it only applies to ordinary tickets and staff passes (where appropriate) and that customers using Contactless/Oyster PAYG will be charged the appropriate fare for the journey actually made, given there's no simple way to tell the Contactless/Oyster back office about the ticket acceptance.

Unfortunately, most TOCs don't understand the distinction between the two, so don't include this crucial information in their engineering work notices. In the same vein, they generally don't seek ticket acceptance on London Buses where appropriate either.
 
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phoenix1589

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The conditions of travel say:
6.1 You must hold a valid Ticket or authority to travel before you board a train

So, if it's not a Ticket (and it hasn't come from a Permit to Travel machine) then it must be an authority to travel, as some of you have said.

What else counts as an authority to travel that I wouldn't have to exchange/upgrade/just buy a real ticket at the earliest opportunity? Would any of these have special terms that means it wouldn't be a ticket?

It's all a bit academic really as if Southeastern say no they won't refund in cases like this then it's ombudsman or some form of legal claim (which obviously wouldn't be worth even considering)
 

miklcct

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What else counts as an authority to travel that I wouldn't have to exchange/upgrade/just buy a real ticket at the earliest opportunity? Would any of these have special terms that means it wouldn't be a ticket?
Is a Freedom Pass a ticket or an authority to travel?
 

MikeWh

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Is a Freedom Pass a ticket or an authority to travel?
A ticket. It's an off-peak travelcard with some odd operator restrictions, but boundary zone 6 extension tickets are valid.
 

Horizon22

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It's all a bit academic really as if Southeastern say no they won't refund in cases like this then it's ombudsman or some form of legal claim (which obviously wouldn't be worth even considering)

My point is - which I have made a few times - it would not be down to Southeastern to do the refunding as it is not their medium. Claiming back through TfL was correct in this instance.
 

etr221

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My point is - which I have made a few times - it would not be down to Southeastern to do the refunding as it is not their medium. Claiming back through TfL was correct in this instance.
I'm not sure on this. I would accept that it is a TfL medium: hence their rules and procedures apply as to how it works, leading (in this case) the extra charge for the Tube part of journey being applied - and, as this is 'standard' fare for a 'standard' journey, I'm not sure I could disagree with this being correct.

But Southeastern said - in their publicity - that there would be no extra charge, so there is a strong case that it is their responsibility to see that it (the extra charge) is refunded, and hence refund request should go to them, certainly after Oyster helpline (TfL) have rejected claim (correctly, based on TfL Oyster conditions quoted above): how they then - in conjunction with TfL - go about making it is then down to them.
 

phoenix1589

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I'm not sure on this. I would accept that it is a TfL medium: hence their rules and procedures apply as to how it works, leading (in this case) the extra charge for the Tube part of journey being applied - and, as this is 'standard' fare for a 'standard' journey, I'm not sure I could disagree with this being correct.

But Southeastern said - in their publicity - that there would be no extra charge, so there is a strong case that it is their responsibility to see that it (the extra charge) is refunded, and hence refund request should go to them, certainly after Oyster helpline (TfL) have rejected claim (correctly, based on TfL Oyster conditions quoted above): how they then - in conjunction with TfL - go about making it is then down to them.
You've articulated this a lot better than I've been able to (thanks).

This perhaps brings up the technical difference for a refund Vs compensation of the same amount? TfL can refund via Oyster. Southeastern can't (as they don't manage Oyster), but could compensate me for the same amount (via PayPal, BACS or whatever) so I'm not out of pocket.
 
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