Overcharged by self service machine.

[Dan4]

Hi, wasn't sure if this was the correct forum to post this topic so sorry in advance if it is.

Me and my partner were travelling from London Victoria to Brighton and when we went to purchase our tickets the machine stated that the purchase could not be completed and we had to go to the "manned desk" (sorry I forgot the exact wording on the screen). I was using my visa debit card. We then got our tickets and off we went. The next day when I went to withdraw money I was near on broke (great start to the trip), when I went to the bank to enquire about it then said that I had been charged 3 times for the tickets amounting to just over £200 (£68 for each pair of return tickets) and I would have to contact the rail company to try and sort it out. They also said that the transaction wasn't completely processed and that it would take 7 days for the action to be reversed if I decided to not ring the company. When I rang Southern rail they stated that there was nothing they could do on their end and they would investigate the matter. Still with no word back I was wondering if there was any action I could take for the drama and stress this has caused aside from the fact that it nearly spoiled our holiday? Thanks in advance.

 

[najaB]

I was wondering if there was any action I could take for the drama and stress this has caused aside from the fact that it nearly spoiled our holiday? Thanks in advance.

I don't know of any other action than writing to the Customer Services team and making a complaint. You haven't actually suffered a loss so I doubt you could bring a small claim against them - unless the failed transactions caused you to go overdrawn or incur fees?

 

[Dan4]

Well I just assumed as it was an error on their part and it has left me short of just under £140 for basically a week that there could be some sort of compensation. I was wondering if anyone else had had the same issue of some sort and whether it was worth chasing up or is it just a case of waiting the 7 days to have my money cleared in my account.

 

[MikeWh]

Two of the transactions are authorisations only which will drop off after 7 days if you do nothing. It's not usually as long as that, so it looks like your bank is one of the over cautious ones. Your bank does have the power to remove the authorisations, and if there are three there for the same amount which is causing you to have no money then I'd hope that they might do something. If they won't then I'd recommend using the banks current account switching service and find a new bank.

If you do get bank charges then you can certainly try claiming these back from the TOC, especially if there was a fault with the machines.

 

[najaB]

Well I just assumed as it was an error on their part and it has left me short of just under £140 for basically a week that there could be some sort of compensation.

I think that morally the TOC should give you some form of compensation, however I can't see how they are legally obliged to.

 

[Dan4]

Cheers for the feedback, I'll contact customer services and approach my bank tomorrow about getting something sorted out sooner.

 

[island]

It is unlikely the money will actually debit your bank account. The transactions are not genuine transactions, but just earmarking the funds. Your bank does have the capability to ore move the earmarking; I don't know which bank you are with but the one I work for will remove it on receipt of an email or fax from the merchant confirming they will not be completing the transaction.

 

[TukayAway]

Speaking as someone who works for a high street bank, the banks do not charge on outstanding authorised entries so you would not be out of pocket there. Depending on your bank, they may be able to "clear" the duplicate entries, however some banks are reluctant to as there is potential for fraud and that a five working day timescale is sufficient for the problem to resolve itself.

The reason for the duplicity is usually user error, be it the card holder or the person putting the transaction through. It can also be a system fault, but due to you having several transactions, this is highly unlikely.

 

[rs101]

The bank may not charge on outstanding authorised entries, but presumably (as these are 'allocating funds') the person can't then spend that money on something else.

If it was user error which led to them generating 2 unnecessary authorisations on the account, there's something very wrong with the self service machine process.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The bank doesn't charge you on outstanding authorised entries- the money doesn't leave your account, it is just ringfenced (i.e. you cannot use it).

Your bank has the power to remove the authorised entries, especially where there is a clear error, and you might want to consider a complaint against them for failing to do so. Mentioning the Financial Ombudsman Service tends to focus a few minds.

The TOC probably won't be able to take the authorisation off, when it happened to me with a machine (IIRC an Underground machine, but could have been any London TOC machine tbf) they couldn't actually see the transaction to do it. Basically what happened is the machine rang through, put the authorisation on, then promptly crashed. It said try again, so I did, and it happened again. I imagine this happened here too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I must admit that this sort of thing (it happens at petrol pumps as well) is one of the many reasons I prefer to use a credit card (but settle it monthly, so no interest is ever paid) rather than a debit card. The impact of fraud is another key reason. So if this is an option for the OP they might want to consider it for the future.

It's not an option for everyone[1], but if it is an option I find it much more secure. If something goes wrong with a credit card, you just lose use of that card (so revert to your debit card, or another one if you have two), and because you would tend to have a credit limit well in excess of what you actually spend those authorisations don't tend to be an issue.

[1] Either for reasons of credit score, or because they can't discipline their use of credit so actively, and sensibly, choose not to take any.

Neil

 

[island]

The bank doesn't charge you on outstanding authorised entries- the money doesn't leave your account, it is just ringfenced (i.e. you cannot use it).

Your bank has the power to remove the authorised entries, especially where there is a clear error, and you might want to consider a complaint against them for failing to do so. Mentioning the Financial Ombudsman Service tends to focus a few minds.

Unlikely. The bank has up to 8 weeks to handle your complaint before the FOS will listen, by which time the authorisation will be long gone.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You can complain to FOS after the event for compensation for the inconvenience...

 

[island]

...if you've complained to the bank first, and the incident was the bank's fault (hint: the bank wasn't the one to submit multiple preauthorizations on the OP's card). In any event, that wasn't what you first suggested.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Cheers for the feedback, I'll contact customer services and approach my bank tomorrow about getting something sorted out sooner.

I have had your situation before and the payments sit at pending (uncleared) then as someone said it will drop off

 

[cjmillsnun]

You can complain to FOS after the event for compensation for the inconvenience...

and your complaint will cause much jollity. This isn't the bank's fault.

They don't have the power to remove these. They are put on by VISA or MasterCard. Should a transaction be processed, then that money will go through, come what may.

The only time the bank can act is in a fraud case. This clearly isn't the issue here.

 

[DelayRepay]

They don't have the power to remove these. They are put on by VISA or MasterCard. Should a transaction be processed, then that money will go through, come what may.

Not true - the bank can remove authorisations, but the transaction is still valid so if it comes through they have an overdrawn account to deal with and no doubt a customer who then complains about the fees. Some banks will remove them if they get confirmation in writing from the retailer that there has been an error but generally it's not a simple process or something a call centre will know how to do.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Not true - the bank can remove authorisations, but the transaction is still valid so if it comes through they have an overdrawn account to deal with and no doubt a customer who then complains about the fees. Some banks will remove them if they get confirmation in writing from the retailer that there has been an error but generally it's not a simple process or something a call centre will know how to do.

Having tried to cancel an authorisation before, it became clear during the call that it was something our Finance Department would need to do, as only they would be able to provide some of the information needed. Suffice to say, advice to the passenger was that they'd just have to wait for their bank to release the funds again.

 

[andyb2706]

A word of advice. In future if you have a choice to use either a TVM or a booking office use the booking office. Not just because what has happened to you but there was an investigation by The Telegraph newspaper at the end of last year which stated that you were not always sold the cheapest ticket available, some differed by as much as £100. The TOC's are supposed to be addressing this issue but haven't heard anything yet. Link to article is below. Also it is keeping staff in a job plus a TVM can not answer any questions you might have.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11319648/Rail-operators-forced-to-tell-passengers-how-to-get-cheapest-fare.html

 

[CyrusWuff]

A word of advice. In future if you have a choice to use either a TVM or a booking office use the booking office. Not just because what has happened to you but there was an investigation by The Telegraph newspaper at the end of last year which stated that you were not always sold the cheapest ticket available, some differed by as much as £100. The TOC's are supposed to be addressing this issue but haven't heard anything yet. Link to article is below. Also it is keeping staff in a job plus a TVM can not answer any questions you might have.

Impartial retailing applies to TVMs just as much as it does to Ticket Offices. The difference is that the current generation of TVMs is unable to ask questions to narrow down the range of fares displayed, so if you're at a London terminal and choose Birmingham as a destination you'll potentially see up to 40 different fares displayed, ranging from £24.90 for a London Midland only Super Off-Peak Single to £440.20 for a First Class 7 Day Season!

 

[najaB]

Impartial retailing applies to TVMs just as much as it does to Ticket Offices.

True, but a lot of machines (used to) show Anytime tickets by default and hide off peak tickets several screens deep. TVM's are also unable to recommend popular splits. Given a choice I always go to the ticket window, unless I already know exactly what ticket I want.

 

[island]

TVM's are also unable to recommend popular splits.

Staffed ticket offices are not allowed to recommend splits, so I fail to see how this particular point is deemed to be a difference.

 

[najaB]

Staffed ticket offices are not allowed to recommend splits, so I fail to see how this particular point is deemed to be a difference.

At the slight risk of getting people into trouble - they may not be allowed to do it, but one nearby does. If you walk in and ask for a day return to either of two popular destinations they will sell you the split ticket without you even asking for it.

 

[island]

I'm unable to comment on what certain ticket offices may or may not do, merely observing on the usual staff instructions around split ticketing and that its absence from TVMs is unlikely to be taken as an argument in favour of retaining staffing at stations.

 

[najaB]

I'm unable to comment on what certain ticket offices may or may not do, merely observing on the usual staff instructions around split ticketing and that its absence from TVMs is unlikely to be taken as an argument in favour of retaining staffing at stations.

Fair enough. Then perhaps rephrase it as "A TVM will always recommend the most obvious ticket and can't call on experience to save customers time and/or money." - which I guess is the same as CyrusWuff was saying.

 

[tony_mac]

Impartial retailing applies to TVMs just as much as it does to Ticket Offices.

There are various cases where TVMs do not sell the cheapest tickets.
(Northern machines don't sell Super off-peaks, for example. I am sure we have seen others).