"Over By Christmas"?

[LNW-GW Joint]

Some optimism is evident after a meeting between Mark Harper (SoS) and Mick Lynch (RMT) today.

Train strikes: Minister hopes Christmas walkouts can be stopped

The new transport secretary is hopeful for a deal but says wage rises that match inflation are not possible.

www.bbc.co.uk

The new transport secretary has said he hopes the rail dispute can be solved before Christmas with "realism" from both trade unions and rail employers.
However, Mark Harper said that pay rises that match the surging cost of living will not be possible due to the UK's "economic circumstances".
It came as he agreed to help unions to try to reach a deal with train firms ahead of fresh strikes next month.
The RMT union said a meeting with Mr Harper had been "positive".
Mr Harper's two predecessors had refused to get involved in the dispute, although the transport secretary said it was not his role to do the "detailed negotiations".
"I do accept I have a role in this process, which is to try to encourage the two sides to come to an agreement and also to make sure... the process moves along as quickly as we can," he told the BBC.

...

Mr Lynch told reporters his meeting with the new transport secretary was "positive in the sense we have got rid of the bellicose nonsense we had from [former transport secretary] Grant Shapps and his cohort in his era and we're now starting to get a dialogue".
He added: "You've heard [Mr Harper] say he's going to be a facilitator towards a settlement or resolution of the dispute. And we've said it's no good us having these warm words, we've had them from his [immediate] predecessor Anne-Marie Trevelyan, but nothing actually happened."
He added the dispute now needed "pace" to be resolved.
"I'm sure the travelling public and the businesses around the country and the economy, want to see this dispute settled in a proper way."

I find it very odd that the biggest single problem confronting the railway, and at the top of every media outlet, is not allowed to be debated on the forum.

 

[Neptune]

I find it very odd that the biggest single problem confronting the railway, and at the top of every media outlet, is not allowed to be debated on the forum.

The single biggest problem is (lack of) funding. Once the strikes are resolved, that problem won’t be going away anytime soon.

 

[66701GBRF]

I find it very odd that the biggest single problem confronting the railway, and at the top of every media outlet, is not allowed to be debated on the forum.

‘There have been plenty of threads on the topic, but as they go on they all end up in the same arguments and end up getting locked.

Don’t know what the offer is but Scotrail staff have voted to accept so that’s one less area for passengers to worry about.

 

[43066]

I find it very odd that the biggest single problem confronting the railway, and at the top of every media outlet, is not allowed to be debated on the forum.

Probably because the threads all become very toxic. Indeed it does sound things are looking up, just a pity today’s meeting apparently wasn’t sufficient to deliver a breakthrough.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

‘There have been plenty of threads on the topic, but as they go on they all end up in the same arguments and end up getting locked.
Don’t know what the offer is but Scotrail staff have voted to accept so that’s one less area for passengers to worry about.

And Transport for Wales apparently (RMT). Includes productivity elements.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

And Transport for Wales apparently (RMT). Includes productivity elements.

The TfW offer, which has been accepted, looks fairly good, especially for the lower paid roles. If it were offered to me (an English TOC employed RMT member) then I would accept it quite happily.

 

[Gorlash1886]

What was the offer from tfw out of interest

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What was the offer from tfw out of interest

My reference was from a tweet from Philip Haigh (Rail Mag) in Nigel Harris's twitter feed, yesterday.
It has the details in an attachment, which looks like an RMT document - scroll down a bit.

https://twitter.com/RAIL

 

[Robertj21a]

Probably because the threads all become very toxic. Indeed it does sound things are looking up, just a pity today’s meeting apparently wasn’t sufficient to deliver a breakthrough.

Harper made it clear that he wasn't there to do the negotiations.

 

[ValentaFan1974]

The TfW offer, which has been accepted, looks fairly good, especially for the lower paid roles. If it were offered to me (an English TOC employed RMT member) then I would accept it quite happily.

Indeed. I’d be more than happy with what TfW got.

 

[Towers]

Indeed. I’d be more than happy with what TfW got.

Would of course require the RMT to offer it to its membership, possibly without its "nothing is solved until everything is" aims being fully met.

 

[43066]

Would of course require the RMT to offer it to its membership, possibly without its "nothing is solved until everything is" aims being fully met.

Maybe it would be fairer to wait until an offer has actually been made before criticising the union for not putting it forward to the members, or for its negotiating tactics?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Would of course require the RMT to offer it to its membership, possibly without its "nothing is solved until everything is" aims being fully met.

It would of course require the RDG / DfT to offer it in England in the first place! The RMT can't offer it to members if it's not offered to them in the first place.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I’m afraid I don’t do Twitter and the above link won’t let me read the content. What is their pay rise percentage and do guards remain fully safety critical?

 

[Towers]

Hold on, slight malfunction....!
Will try and upload it...

Essentially, yes - guards are still guards!

6.6% total increase including scanning of etickets, for which they'll get 2p per scan, and New Years Day services to be introduced on the Valley routes. Those additional extras are added onto a basic 4.5% offer to make it up to the 6.6%.

 

[ARIC]

TfW Pay Offer from RMT website

It's a sensible deal, that I'd take if offered by my English TOC. But I don't know enough about what this means for other grades to guess what they'd think of their particular terms

 

[ValentaFan1974]

The gist of it as follows:

• This is a 9-month deal, with a commitment to bring forward the pay anniversary date from 15th July to the 1st April going forward.
  A collective pay offer of 4.5% across all grades with a minimum increase of £1,500* per fulltime equivalent (*colleagues earning less than £33,350).
• one off non-consolidated payment of £1,000 will be awarded to colleagues earning less than
  £33,350, to support addressing the difference between the lower and higher pay groups.
• A commitment to no compulsory redundancies for the period of the original Grant Agreement.
• An increase in Maternity leave from 12 weeks full pay to 26 weeks full pay (eligibility from
• 15th July 2022)
• An increase in Paternity leave from 1-week full pay to 2 weeks full pay (eligibility from 1st July 2022)
  An agreement to provide spouse / partners of staff a Travel pass on the same terms it is offered to staff that leave TFW RL e.g. Retire, ill health (eligibility from 15th July 2022).

• Implementation of scanning at 2p per scan with a review within 12 months of scanning and selling commission. A one off non-consolidated payment of £500 will be made in recognition of this change.
Commitment to running services on New Year's Day on CVL commencing from 1st January 2024, and the approach will form part of CRI Talks.

Stations:

The pay offer of 4.5% will increase to 6.6% for agreement of the following productivity element:

collectively finding opportunities or synergies on legacy fleet allowing workloads to be

planned more efficiently with known task and repair timings. If this process identihes efficiencies, then reasonable and agreed efficiencies are accounted for in this productivity.

Agreement to include Bolt-On payments, including pension, from 1st April 2023.

 

[Towers]

Do we know the ticket office situation for TfW - is the same dispute happening over closures there as in England?

 

[AVK17]

I have heard a rumour that the RMT is expecting Network Rail to make a seperate pay offer in the coming week just to the Operations grades to settle their part of the dispute, leaving maintenance staff high and dry. Classic divide and conquer tactics if true.

 

[BrummieBobby]

I have heard a rumour that the RMT is expecting Network Rail to make a seperate pay offer in the coming week just to the Operations grades to settle their part of the dispute, leaving maintenance staff high and dry. Classic divide and conquer tactics if true.

Disappointing if true, it cannot be acceptable.

Personally speaking, the threat to maintenance staff and the affect it would have on safety was my primary reason for voting to strike in the first place.

 

[Towers]

It'd be great if we could keep this thread civilised and avoid the usual arguments, as it's nice to have a resource available for updates and sensible discussion!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Thanks to those who posted details about the TfW offer. That seems quite agreeable without going into any small print. No mention of ‘Sundays in’ or do TfW already have that?

 

[43066]

Harper made it clear that he wasn't there to do the negotiations.

The government at least seems finally to have stopped pretending the negotiation is purely between NR/TOCs and the unions, while simultaneously preventing NR/TOCs from agreeing anything, which is a start.

Thanks to those who posted details about the TfW offer. That seems quite agreeable without going into any small print. No mention of ‘Sundays in’ or do TfW already have that?

Agreed. Hopefully this and the Scottish offer can be the beginnings of a template for agreement.

There still needs to be some movement on the ASLEF front, however.

 

[Towers]

The government at least seems finally to have stopped pretending the negotiation is purely between NR/TOCs and the unions, while simultaneously preventing NR/TOCs from agreeing anything, which is a start.



Agreed. Hopefully this and the Scottish offer can be the beginnings of a template for agreement.

There still needs to be some movement on the ASLEF front, however.

Aslef will presumably see what is agreed with RMT and simply be offered something similar?

 

[43066]

Aslef will presumably see what is agreed with RMT and simply be offered something similar?

I would certainly have thought so, yes.

Of course for ASLEF there’s no concern whatsoever about preventing redundancies, and Ts and Cs are all important, so the “strings attached” will be crucial. It’s a little difficult to see how a “national” one-size-fits-all offer could be made, given the disparity in Ts and Cs, but perhaps something tailored to each TOC.

 

[STKKK46]

It'd be great if we could keep this thread civilised and avoid the usual arguments, as it's nice to have a resource available for updates and sensible discussion!

Couldn’t agree more. No Tory bashing and no union bashing, just grapevine and updates!!

Promising to read some of the stuff on here.

 

[43066]

No Tory bashing and no union bashing, just grapevine and updates!!

Fully agreed. That’s also good for sometimes-Tory-voting union members.

I’m told they do exist…

 

[Gorlash1886]

I would certainly have thought so, yes.

Of course for ASLEF there’s no concern whatsoever about preventing redundancies, and Ts and Cs are all important, so the “strings attached” will be crucial. It’s a little difficult to see how a “national” one-size-fits-all offer could be made, given the disparity in Ts and Cs, but perhaps something tailored to each TOC.

Looks like they are going one size fits all, in an email we received they are not looking at leveling the pay across companies, we seem to be fighting for other tocs to move further away from us percentage wise and protecting their Sundays when ours are inside anyway

 

[43066]

Looks like they are going one size fits all, in an email we received they are not looking at leveling the pay across companies, we seem to be fighting for other tocs to move further away from us percentage wise and protecting their Sundays when ours are inside anyway

If you work where I think you do, I 100% agree that’s not a good outcome. Was that from the local reps/LDC?

We have had very little communicated about what, if anything, has actually been offered, just assured that it’s “unsuitable”, or similar . Lack of transparency is one of my biggest criticisms of the union, frankly.

 

[craigybagel]

There still needs to be some movement on the ASLEF front, however.

ASLEF reached agreement with TfW even earlier than RMT did. Their deal is broadly similar.

Hence this Saturday TfW will be pretty much the only operator running trains not just in Wales, but also the West Midlands and (other than a very limited token service from TPE) Greater Manchester.