Oval phase 2 - the 4.5 hour peak

[bakerstreet]

At the launch of the Oval phase 1, I noticed a ‘feature’ when using paper tickets that – in order to complete my journey from north west London to, for example, Staines - I have to leave a good 1hr 20 minutes before the PM peak period begins, because of 2 changes of trains on route.

Frustrating.

Worse, if any of three TOC timetables were to be recast, this could change the peak period for said journey.

With Oval phase 2 the same situation applies but effects become more widespread.

The premise is the same - paper tickets are charged the same as using contactless.

Off Peak restrictions are harmonised (other than before 06:30 on weekdays), so far so good.

BUT … Consider a journey like Chelmsford to Reading.

If you use contactless you can catch the 15.55 departure from CHM and travel on any train out of PAD and pay an off-peak fare.

Use a paper ticket (perhaps because you want to use a railcard) the last departure you can catch is the 14:25 from CHM because it is not valid on trains timed to depart between 16:00 and 19:00 and you’re picking the last valid train at PAD leaving at 1548.

This is a significant difference on something that's supposed to be the same.

It's even worse when you consider that currently CHM to RDG is restriction C4 -where you can use it in the afternoon peak, so long as you’re not catching GWR services from PAD.

Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 which arrive at, or depart from; any London Terminal, Farringdon, or Kensington Olympia before 10:00

Not valid on trains timed to depart after 16:00 from London Paddington on Great Western Railway services until 19:01

Since when did the evening peak last over 4.5 hours?

There'll be lots of other examples where people will be in for a shock in a couple of weeks when the fares change.

With many restrictions, a change of trains during a journey would be immaterial. Surely it should be the same in this case. Would this be so difficult to apply?

I really thought they might’ve fixed this for phase 2.

 

[Mark J]

Why Contactless couldn't have been introduced without all these stupid restrictions and sneaky price rises, is beyond me.

Project Oval is nothing more than just more fare increases, disguised as 'fares simplification' and 'progress'.

 

[JonathanH]

Why Contactless couldn't of been introduced without all these stupid restrictions and sneaky price rises, is beyond me.

Single leg pricing 'has' to have an afternoon peak to ensure that there is a not a reduction in the revenue obtained from people who currently purchase an anytime day return.

The alternative would be punitive morning peak fares, which is unlikely to be desirable, or a different method of capping at off-peak times. While zone 1 centric capping is entertained within the Oval system, it only helps with journeys to London.

There'll be lots of other examples where people will be in for a shock in a couple of weeks when the fares change.

Or people travelling oblivious to the fact their ticket now has an afternoon restriction, that find themselves incurring the wrath of a ticket inspector? I assume that wider use of barcode tickets and scanning will make it easier for revenue staff to stay on top of restrictions.

Use a paper ticket (perhaps because you want to use a railcard) the last departure you can catch is the 14:25 from CHM because it is not valid on trains timed to depart between 16:00 and 19:00 and you’re picking the last valid train at PAD leaving at 1548.

You can break a journey in London for a few hours if that fits your plans (but I recognise that isn't desirable for all) - eg leave Chelmsford at 1555, and Paddington at 1900. You can also book the Chelmsford to London and London to Reading bits separately and travel into London during the evening peak, but I absolutely agree that both are a nuisance or cost more money.

With many restrictions, a change of trains during a journey would be immaterial. Surely it should be the same in this case. Would this be so difficult to apply?

Break of journey would have to be banned. The issue is that someone could start short in the evening peak on a longer distance 'paper' ticket which clearly they can't on Contactless.

 

[CyrusWuff]

With many restrictions, a change of trains during a journey would be immaterial. Surely it should be the same in this case. Would this be so difficult to apply?

Because implementing anything other than a blanket "Not valid on trains departing between x and y" for traditional tickets requires specifying times for each station individually, as exposed by the "unplished restrictions" on BRFares.

Here are the restrictions for an Off-Peak Day Return in the Oval area where a PM peak restriction applies on the return leg.

Nice and simple: Not valid in either direction between 0430 and 0929, nor for return between 1600 and 1900.

And here are the restrictions Chiltern apply to their Super Off-Peak Returns when the outward leg is heading away from London. Note the long list of unpublished restrictions required so journey planners support the public text.

 

[Haywain]

Because implementing anything other than a blanket "Not valid on trains departing between x and y" for traditional tickets requires specifying times for each station individually, as exposed by the "unplished restrictions" on BRFares.

Nonsense, it could simply be "not valid to depart origin station between x and y". Then it would be ptetty much the same as contactless. And easily enforced by journey planners.

 

[JonathanH]

Nonsense, it could simply be "not valid to depart origin station between x and y". Then it would be ptetty much the same as contactless. And easily enforced by journey planners.

The issue the railway is trying to work around is someone turning up at a London Terminal station and starting short between time x and time y on a ticket from another origin, undercutting the restriction the for the ticket to London.

I think, in the original poster's case, the use of a travelcard and ticket from boundary zone 6 to destination is perhaps the best workaround once the journey goes further beyond London.

 

[davews]

And in my case when they introduce it from Martins Heron it may well be that a paper travelcard is the cheapest option even if you have no intention of using the tube. On my London trips I ALWAYS travel home during the evening peak period.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Nonsense, it could simply be "not valid to depart origin station between x and y". Then it would be ptetty much the same as contactless. And easily enforced by journey planners.

If it was that simple, surely WMT would have done it so their "A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time." easement on their Super Off-Peak tickets was able to be handled by journey planners?

 

[MrJeeves]

Nonsense, it could simply be "not valid to depart origin station between x and y". Then it would be ptetty much the same as contactless. And easily enforced by journey planners.

The data doesn't allow for a time restriction against the ticket or journey origin.

You'd need a dedicated restriction code for each potential origin within the PAYG area... I'm not saying there aren't enough codes left for that, but it'd be one hell of a task!

Plus you'd introduce loopholes with that. Could you board from a station one stop into the journey between those times? If not, you'd need to rephrase it to be for services timed to depart the origin within those times. But then you could say if you have a ticket from Brighton to London, you can board at Haywards Heath on a service from Eastbourne as that won't have departed Brighton at all!

Atatched are the possible data fields from the spec:

Key	Field	Field Name	Length	Position	Description
	1	UPDATE_MARKER	1	1-1	In a 'changes only' update file, indicates whether the record is to be inserted, amended or deleted ('I'/'A'/'D'). For a full file refresh all update markers in the file will be set to 'R'.
Y	2	RECORD_TYPE	2	2-3	Contains 'TR'.
Y	3	CF_MKR	1	4-4	Either 'C' or 'F'. Used to determine the start and end dates for this record.
Y	4	RESTRICTION_CODE	2	5-6	Alphanumeric restriction code.
Y	5	SEQUENCE_NO	4	7-10	Numeric sequence number. Several time restrictions may apply with the same restriction code; this field is used to uniquely identify them.
Y	6	OUT_RET	1	11-11	'O' or 'R', to indicate whether the restriction applies to outward journeys or return journeys.
	7	TIME_FROM	4	12-15	4 numeric characters in the format HHM. Gives the start time at which this time restriction applies.
	8	TIME_TO	4	16-19	4 numeric characters in the format HHM. Gives the end time until which this time restriction applies.
	9	ARR_DEP_VIA	1	20-20	'A', 'D' or 'V'. Indicates whether the time restriction applies to arrivals at, departures from or changing at the location in LOCATION.
	10	LOCATION	3	21-23	CRS code of a location denoting a journey origin/destination or via location at which the restriction may apply. Three spaces in this field means that restriction is not station specific
	11	RSTR_TYPE	1	24-24	'T' or 'A'. Indicates whether the time restriction relates to the timetable or actual running time of the train.
	12	TRAIN_TYPE	1	25-25	Contains a sector code which is used to indicate that the restriction applies to particular train types.
	13	MIN_FARE_FLAG	1	26-26	'Y' or 'N'. 'Y' indicates that if the restriction applies then the fare is valid but a minimum fare must be used. 'N' indicates that if restriction applies then fare is not valid.

 

[Sleepy]

At the launch of the Oval phase 1, I noticed a ‘feature’ when using paper tickets that – in order to complete my journey from north west London to, for example, Staines - I have to leave a good 1hr 20 minutes before the PM peak period begins, because of 2 changes of trains on route.

Frustrating.

Worse, if any of three TOC timetables were to be recast, this could change the peak period for said journey.

With Oval phase 2 the same situation applies but effects become more widespread.

The premise is the same - paper tickets are charged the same as using contactless.

Off Peak restrictions are harmonised (other than before 06:30 on weekdays), so far so good.

BUT … Consider a journey like Chelmsford to Reading.

If you use contactless you can catch the 15.55 departure from CHM and travel on any train out of PAD and pay an off-peak fare.

Use a paper ticket (perhaps because you want to use a railcard) the last departure you can catch is the 14:25 from CHM because it is not valid on trains timed to depart between 16:00 and 19:00 and you’re picking the last valid train at PAD leaving at 1548.

This is a significant difference on something that's supposed to be the same.

It's even worse when you consider that currently CHM to RDG is restriction C4 -where you can use it in the afternoon peak, so long as you’re not catching GWR services from PAD.



Since when did the evening peak last over 4.5 hours?

There'll be lots of other examples where people will be in for a shock in a couple of weeks when the fares change.

With many restrictions, a change of trains during a journey would be immaterial. Surely it should be the same in this case. Would this be so difficult to apply?

I really thought they might’ve fixed this for phase 2.

Oddly no contactless fares showing for Chelmsford to Reading in brfares.com ??

 

[Watershed]

Oddly no contactless fares showing for Chelmsford to Reading in brfares.com ??

TfL's Single Fare Finder, whose data is also shown in a clearer format on LT Fares and Oyster Fares Central, is the authoritative source on what you will be charged when making PAYG journeys on contactless/Oyster.

BR Fares should show the fares (as PAP/POP) if you enter a future date from 7 Dec, but you're right that it doesn't appear to have anything in for Chelmsford to Reading. It's possible GA just haven't got round to publishing/creating those fares yet, or that they've overlooked them...

 

[Hadders]

Knebworth to Reading is an interesting one. Currently you can use any train after 08:59 but with the new restrictions on traditional tickets the last train you will be able to catch before hitting the afternoon restrictions is at 14:12:

Knebworth dep. 14:12
Kings Cross arr. 14:52
Paddington dep. 15:48
Reading arr. 16:11

The next southbound train from Knebworth is at 14:42 and means departure from Paddington is post 16:00.
The first journey opportunity after the evening peak is at 19:12.

Is this really what was intended? The real losers here are railcard holders, including Disabled Railcard holders - I wonder if an impact assessment has been done?

EDIT:

Watton at Stone to Reading is even worse. Departing WAS at 13:39 is the last journey opportunity using an off peak paper ticket.

 

[JonathanH]

Is this really what was intended?

The talk from the RDG consultation many years ago certainly suggested that the railway did want to put off off-peak traveller from making these sorts of journeys in the afternoon peak. They would certainly want to restrict travel from Paddington at off-peak fares between 1600 and 1900.

I think a passenger wanting to pay can still catch the 1542 from Knebworth and the 1904 from Paddington, since it isn't clear that the 1600-1900 restriction applies for the cross London Underground transfer. However, this looks like downtime of about two hours in London waiting for the peak window to end.

Knebworth to Reading will be £16.25 for an off-peak day single with a railcard. Knebworth to Kings Cross will be £5.50 for an off-peak day single with a railcard, valid after 0930 with no afternoon restriction. Combined with a London to Reading fare, once Oval comes to that route, it probably won't be that much more to split in London.

For a day return trip, an off-peak day return from Reading to Knebworth will be £32.55 with a railcard. An off-peak day travelcard from Reading is £24.75, and an off-peak day return from Boundary Zone 6 to Knebworth will be £8.30. Not really that much in it to avoid the restrictions (other than the GWR Paddington peak).

Where this falls down is the places where using a Travelcard isn't an option, or the Travelcard and / or boundary fares are expensive.

Clearly it would be better if workarounds weren't needed, given it is meant to be fares reform in the pursuit of simplification.

 

[bakerstreet]

Reigate MP warns contactless rail changes are ‘pricing passengers out’​

Source https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2025-12-28/contactless-rail-changes-risk-pricing-passengers-out

Train fares on some routes in Surrey have risen sharply following the expansion of contactless ticketing, prompting warnings from a local MP that passengers are being "priced out of rail travel."

Rebecca Paul, the Conservative MP for Reigate, said she has been contacted by a number of residents since contactless payments were rolled out to more stations in south-east England earlier this month.

Paul said changes designed to modernise ticketing were instead making journeys more expensive and confusing for some commuters and families.

"This change should make rail travel easier, not more expensive,” she said. "Quietly narrowing the definition of what counts as off-peak risks pricing passengers out of rail altogether."

(left to right) shadow housing secretary Sir James Cleverly, Tory Party leader Kemi Badenoch and Reigate MP Rebecca Paul in Sept 2025Credit: PA

Contactless ticketing was introduced to 30 additional stations on 14 December under the Department for Transport’s Project Oval, allowing passengers to tap in and out using a bank card or phone instead of buying paper tickets.

However, the expansion has also brought changes to peak and off-peak time restrictions, aligning them with Transport for London’s contactless system.

That has meant some trains which could previously be used with cheaper off-peak tickets now require more expensive peak fares.

In Reigate, the first weekday Southern service to London that can be used with an off-peak day travelcard now leaves at 9:28am, half an hour later than before. A peak-time day travelcard costs £37.10, compared with £20.60 for an off-peak version.

Campaigners have highlighted anomalies in the new system, including the fact that passengers boarding the 8:58am train from Reigate must pay peak fares, while those joining the same service five minutes later at Redhill can still use off-peak tickets.

The Reigate, Redhill and District Rail Users’ Association described the situation as "ridiculous" and said families are facing increases of up to 85% if they return home during newly restricted evening peak hours between 4pm and 7pm.

Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR), which runs Southern Rail, said the changes mean many passengers will save moneyCredit: PA

Rail lobby group Railfuture has warned that contactless does not always offer the cheapest option, particularly for passengers who use railcards or travel in groups, as discounts cannot currently be applied to contactless payments.

It said a family of four travelling from Luton to central London at the weekend could pay £84 using contactless, compared with £41.70 using paper tickets with a Groupsave discount.

Govia Thameslink Railway, which operates Southern and Thameslink services, said contactless ticketing makes travel "quicker and easier" and insisted the changes were not designed to increase revenue.

It added that a commuter who travels before 6.30am and returns either before 4pm or after 7pm can save £11.60, as their total fare is reduced from £26.80 to £15.20.

A spokesperson said while some fares would rise, many passengers would save money, pointing to cheaper off-peak single journeys and savings for commuters travelling outside the busiest hours.

The Department for Transport said most single fares would be the same price or cheaper and described contactless as offering "simpler, more flexible travel."

But Rebecca Paul MP said she will continue pressing both GTR and the Department to ensure passengers are not left worse off.

"Reigate passengers deserve the benefits of modern ticketing," she said. "But not at the cost of higher fares and fewer affordable options."