Outrageous Infrastructure Proposals

[Harpers Tate]

Build a new High Speed line from places further north (eg Birmingham, Leeds, East Midlands) into London.

And bring it into Euston.

So that people wanting to proceed to Kent or the Continent can enjoy a walk in the sunshine or a ride on the Underground to make their connection, thus losing some or all of the time saved by them travelling on HS2 in the first place.

Oh...wait.

 

[YorkshireBear]

But we're not building new capacity. We're building a £80bn London-Birmingham shuttle bus, effectively.

Spend a bit of that money on existing lines, to get the same result. It really is that obvious.

That extends to Manchester and Leeds and Captive sets onto Scotland and Newcastle. That is one hell of a shuttle bus. And no one is going to take you seriously while you maintain that 80 billion crap you are spouting on about. We all know it won't cost that.

The main point is new capacity, you explain to me how a brand new High Speed line is not new capacity??

Did you follow the recent WCML modernisation? If you did you wouldn't be saying do that again is obvious.

 

[joeykins82]

But we're not building new capacity. We're building a £80bn London-Birmingham shuttle bus, effectively.

No, we're initially building a £17bn high-speed bypass that'll be used by a Euston-Birmingham shuttle service and will also be used by all WCML intercity services serving destinations north of Birmingham (Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, possibly in the longer term Blackpool & Chester). Then there's a £20bn extension to further bypass sections of the WCML turning the Manchester service in to a captive operation, and to also provide relief to the ECML by serving Leeds with a captive service and allowing some ECML services to York and beyond to operate over HS2 instead.

 

[ainsworth74]

We already have a thread to discuss HS2 and this is not it. I would ask that anyone wishing to discuss the merits or otherwise of HS2 use that ongoing thread.

 

[YorkshireBear]

We already have a thread to discuss HS2 and this is not it. I would ask that anyone wishing to discuss the merits or otherwise of HS2 use that ongoing thread.

Apologies thought i was on that thread

 

[theageofthetra]

Got to agree with the previous post about double deck or larger loading gauge into Central London. How about having much wider trains like in Russia or the baltic states. You could have twin gangways like in a plane with say 2-3-2 seating. If you went the double deck route then have high level doors so both decks load/unload simultaneously at termini or the busiest stations a bit like on the Airbus A380. I struggle to see otherwise how the predicted passenger growth can be catered for.

 

[HowardGWR]

If you went the double deck route then have high level doors so both decks load/unload simultaneously at termini or the busiest stations a bit like on the Airbus A380.

I don't think that's necessarily needed. I use the double deck trains in the Netherlands, typically from Schiphol to AMS Centraal, and people get ready to disembark as the train nears the terminus by forming a queue down the stairs, such that they then pour out as the doors open. With wide central gangways, it seems to work quite well.

 

[southern442]

Got to agree with the previous post about double deck or larger loading gauge into Central London. How about having much wider trains like in Russia or the baltic states. You could have twin gangways like in a plane with say 2-3-2 seating. If you went the double deck route then have high level doors so both decks load/unload simultaneously at termini or the busiest stations a bit like on the Airbus A380. I struggle to see otherwise how the predicted passenger growth can be catered for.

yes, I think the double decks should be on most outer suburban routes, including London to Oxford, Littlehampton, Horsham, Basingstoke, Peterborough, Colchester, Cambridge, Sevenoaks and Milton keynes.

 

[PHILIPE]

A station is infrastructure so I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Newport station yet.

 

[eps200]

A tidal barrage across the Mersey between eastham and Gaston with a six lane road link from the A41 just before it turns into brombrough and 4 rail lines from Chester incorporated.
Two rail lines connect to the Wirral line at hooton taking two of the Chester servies and adding two new ones these are run under the river to south parkway then run up the northern line and join up to the kirby and ormskirk (now Preston and skedaddle) services that currently terminate at central.
The other two lines run out Chester pass bach and capenhurst without stops stop at hooton then south parkway connecting to the fast lines into lime street, these would take up the HS2 classics compatibles (which now also serve Chester) as well as anything els that would otherwise terminate at Chester, marcher line services for example.
The road is connecting the A41 to the A561 mostly aimed at longer distance trafic and to reduce loads on the tunnels we have.

 

[starrymarkb]

Full Gauge Enhancement to UIC gauge

 

[bluenoxid]

A river bus service on the River Tyne
A sealed tunnel maglev from Newcastle to Whitley Bay.

 

[Morgsie]

I have been watching Dreaming the Impossible: Unbuilt Britain which featured the Great Victorian Way in episode 1 and in Episode 2 there was mention of the Great Belt Railway

 

[jopsuk]

Full Gauge Enhancement to UIC gauge

By which I assume you mean UIC GC+- as if we're going to do it, might as well go for the largest.

For real ambition, go Channel Tunnel loading gauge everywhere- could have double deck without a low floor...

 

[CalderRail]

By which I assume you mean UIC GC+- as if we're going to do it, might as well go for the largest.

For real ambition, go Channel Tunnel loading gauge everywhere- could have double deck without a low floor...

I don't even want to think about how much reboring Standedge or Summit to that standard would cost.

 

[HSTEd]

Probably cheaper to skylight most tunnels.

 

[tbtc]

The Virgin ECML plans are probably my favourite "what if" - the idea of building a parallel ECML from London to Doncaster plus new alignments avoiding Durham and Morpeth.

Would that have avoided the need for an eastern arm of HS2 today? Would that have killed off the northern end of the MML (the plan was for London - Sheffield service to run via Retford, which would have been a lot faster). Would we see one operator for both long distance lines (Virgin were already running the WCML and bidding for the ECML).

Or maybe the Sea Containers plans for SWT?

 

[jopsuk]

The Virgin ECML plans are probably my favourite "what if" - the idea of building a parallel ECML from London to Doncaster plus new alignments avoiding Durham and Morpeth.

Expensive, but certainly deals with the issue of mixing with the suburban traffic! Would need new Peterbrough-Doncaster services, but perhaps additional stations (on the existing line) could be built (mainly parkways).

Or maybe the Sea Containers plans for SWT?

What was this? I take it was in the early days, when life was good at GNER- or was it during the original franchising round?

 

[tbtc]

What was this? I take it was in the early days, when life was good at GNER- or was it during the original franchising round?

I can't find documents from the time, but I think they wanted double deckers running out of Waterloo - all seemed very complicated!

 

[IanXC]

Perhaps I need to use my imagination a little more, but my thought on seeing the title of this thread was a complete programme to remove *every* level crossing from the Network.

Some of the solutions would have to be pretty serious to deal with the final few on the list, for instance to maintain vehicle access and remove the crossings in Lincoln. Having said that its probably the single thing that'd improve safety of the system significantly.

 

[swcovas]

Build a completely new line from Bangor/N. Wales coast right through the centre of Wales, mountains, tunnels and all so that we can satisfy the Welsh Assembly Government's obsession with improving North to South communications and and at the same time getting rid of the totally wasteful and costly air link.

 

[DXMachina]

I've suggested it before in similar threads.. but...

The Varsity Line partial reopening (Oxford-Bletchley then on to Bedford) isn't enough to capture the positive benefits of east-west rail links. It needs to be extended to Amsterdam via the North Sea Tunnel

 

[HowardGWR]

A proper metro system for Bristol. Don't imagine for one moment that the present proposals are that - the old present lines are lines that mostly don't go where people want to go (city centre and shopping centre, nor even the ghastly out-of-town shopping mall). Nor do the old lines go to the new suburbs, bypassing most of them. Just look at the map of Bristol or use Google maps, etc.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Build a completely new line from Bangor/N. Wales coast right through the centre of Wales, mountains, tunnels and all so that we can satisfy the Welsh Assembly Government's obsession with improving North to South communications and and at the same time getting rid of the totally wasteful and costly air link.

Doesn't seem to be a priority anymore ie Wrexham redouble cancelled

 

[Jonny]

My personal view, similar to tbtc but more grandiose, would be a "HS3" line that would link London to Cambridge, Hull and Tyneside with continuation to Scotland using ERTMS/ETCS signalling, and a spur shadowing the GEML (to Ipswich/Norwich). The terminal would be near the City, say at London Liverpool Street/Fenchurch Street (or even Moorgate), with a link to HS1 and domestic services coming in as well.

My other fantasy is something that could be funded by cutting back some/most of the foreign aid budget and spending it on domestic infrastructure that benefits disadvantaged regions (i.e. domestic aid) instead, with projects such as the above being possibly viable as well as a few intra-regional projects.

 

[JGR]

If we're going to go with outrageous, then I'd go for a Dublin to Holyhead tunnel.

More usefully though, I'd say widening Wakefield Westgate to 3 or 4 platforms, probably involving widening the north end of the viaduct and demolishing the current northbound platform (2?).

Extending the Heathrow Connect line south from T4 via Staines, Woking and/or Guildford to Gatwick might be nice too.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

More usefully though, I'd say widening Wakefield Westgate to 3 or 4 platforms, probably involving widening the north end of the viaduct and demolishing the current northbound platform (2?).

I think consideration was given to something similar to this, but would've moved the whole station to the North rather than needing to widen the viaduct and bridge over Westgate. Not quite as outrageous though, that...

 

[L&Y Robert]

Woodstock (for Blenheim)
Verney Junction to Buckingham.
Ashendon Junction to GC main line at Grendon Underwood (alternative route onto the Oxford to Bletchley line from Marylebone, avoiding Aylesbury etc.)

 

[YorkshireBear]

If we're going to go with outrageous, then I'd go for a Dublin to Holyhead tunnel.

More usefully though, I'd say widening Wakefield Westgate to 3 or 4 platforms, probably involving widening the north end of the viaduct and demolishing the current northbound platform (2?).

Extending the Heathrow Connect line south from T4 via Staines, Woking and/or Guildford to Gatwick might be nice too.

Doesn't need it IMHO. Soon some trains will be routed through Hambleton once TPE electrification heads that way. And once HS2 arrives I would want everything arriving at Wakefield to stop anyway.

I don't think anything should terminate there so no need for anything else.

 

[anthony263]

Doesn't seem to be a priority anymore ie Wrexham redouble cancelled

I think the WG are going to be in big trouble when that is annouced publically.
I can guess where the money went for that.

I will be glad when the next election comes and labour can be kicked out of office. This currrent administration is terrible even Plaid Cymru were better when they were in coalition.