Orrell

[Stonesourscotty]

Does anyone know what the work that is currently taking place at Orrell train station on the Wigan-Kirkby line? it looks like platform lengthening or a disabled access maybe? i know patronage has skyrocketed at this station but this still seems odd. Some times loadings are higher at Orrell than Wigan-Wallgate due to the new housing a big college nearby and also the high cost of Arriva Buses and the removal of the slt service.

 

[WatcherZero]

Err just a quick look at patronage shoots that theory down pretty fast. Cant find any reference to improvements above those carried out in 2009 so im guessing general renewals.

 

[Gathursty]

Let's hope this work leads to electrification beyond Kirkby to Wigan Wallgate

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Orrell is one of the "border" stations that are in the TfGM area.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What's that got to do with anything? :?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What's that got to do with anything? :?

Don't TfGM have any input whatsover into any station improvements that fall within their administrative area?

 

[Lampshade]

Don't TfGM have any input whatsover into any station improvements that fall within their administrative area?

Not usually, they can but they're too interested in the Metrolink. Think the most they've done on their own is a few PIS screens at stations, everything else with support from Northern/TPE/councils.

 

[Toots]

Err just a quick look at patronage shoots that theory down pretty fast. .

Really?....I would have said that patronage almost doubling from 48,000 to 94,000 in only five years for a line with no late evening service would back his theory up.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Loadings vary between 20 and 60 Passengers boarding at Orrell depending on if the College is in or not on a Single 2 Carriage DMU the conductor rarely sells everyone a ticket due to the short nature of the distance between stops id actually advocate slowing the service down between Wigan and Orrell just to sell a few more tickets an extra 2 minutes waiting at Wallgate Junction would improve the amount of Money Northern get.

the 4/5pm departures are normally around 60 people mostly students/teachers at Orrell and then a further 10 or so at Pem.

 

[WatcherZero]

Really?....I would have said that patronage almost doubling from 48,000 to 94,000 in only five years for a line with no late evening service would back his theory up.

The same has happened on the Chat Moss line at Eccles and Patricroft, doesnt mean the loadings are particularly high just that theyve increased from a small starting level.

Its easy to see how small an increase when you do the maths, take the increase in passengers, divide by twice the number of annual working days and you get the number more on average using the station each day.

 

[Bevan Price]

Does anyone know what the work that is currently taking place at Orrell train station on the Wigan-Kirkby line? it looks like platform lengthening or a disabled access maybe? i know patronage has skyrocketed at this station but this still seems odd. Some times loadings are higher at Orrell than Wigan-Wallgate due to the new housing a big college nearby and also the high cost of Arriva Buses and the removal of the slt service.

Loadings vary between 20 and 60 Passengers boarding at Orrell depending on if the College is in or not on a Single 2 Carriage DMU the conductor rarely sells everyone a ticket due to the short nature of the distance between stops id actually advocate slowing the service down between Wigan and Orrell just to sell a few more tickets an extra 2 minutes waiting at Wallgate Junction would improve the amount of Money Northern get.

the 4/5pm departures are normally around 60 people mostly students/teachers at Orrell and then a further 10 or so at Pem.

Maybe more train passengers because the local bus (352 Wigan - St. Helens) has become unpredictable, due to the seemingly never-ending roadworks outside Wigan North Western & Wallgate stations. ?

 

[Stonesourscotty]

The 352's been a Joke since it moved to St Helens depot run by a bunch of idiots that ignore timetables regularly turn up early and late when theres arent roadworks and regularly and are dirty internally and externally the fares are extortionate and are well overpriced compared to other depots. Bring Back Northwestern Haydock Depot now that was a properly run depot.

Of note is two other stations on the Atherton line are currently receiving modifications From memory they where Walkden and Swinton? looks alot like Platform lengthening.

 

[WatcherZero]

Atherton line is supposed to go over to four car operation in the peaks from December timetable change. I thought this mainly affected Wigan terminators and Southport service but I guess their adding the platform capacity to the Kirkby line too. Some non stopping Atherton line services and services via Bolton have been four car for a while.

 

[ukrob]

Some Kirkby services are to be 2x142 as well.

 

[DavidL]

The 352's been a Joke since it moved to St Helens depot run by a bunch of idiots that ignore timetables regularly turn up early and late when theres arent roadworks and regularly and are dirty internally and externally the fares are extortionate and are well overpriced compared to other depots. Bring Back Northwestern Haydock Depot now that was a properly run depot.

A brief O/T diversion, without wishing to make this busforums.co.uk

Just out of interest, when was the 352 moved to St Helens?

While I wouldn't take issue with your comments as a general point on Arriva's fares structure, I would query that being marked as a fault against St. Helens depot in particular. I'd go one further and say that outside of PTE-sponsored services, the whole deregulated bus fare structure is extortionate. As Bevan pointed out on another thread, I don't think there is a commercial fare shy of £2 now from St Helens.
(I know I would end up walking home from the train station a lot more if I didn't have a PTE season ticket!)

Also, while I don't have the inside knowledge of the depot you may have, I've not observed a great deal of delay with the 352, outside of these roadworks - and only really during peak time. I'll accept that during peak time and roadworks, you may as well ignore the timetable.
The buses could certainly do with more cleaning and interior refurb though. Leaky windows on tonight's 352 and a damp seat!

The bigger problem is when the bus doesn't turn up at all due to failure or accident - and this seems to be increasing in frequency - particularly for poor HTL running St Helens services from a depot in Prescot.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Were any of these 352 services ever run from the former Arriva depot in Skelmersdale, that saw its fleet and route allocation sent to three other Arriva depots at St Helens, Southport and Bootle (so I am informed).

 

[Stonesourscotty]

The 352 was moved to St Helens when Haydock shut in the Early-Mid Noughties? The Sunday Service was operated by Skem depot upto around 2008? The Exterior and interior of alot of the SH buses are awful as evidence when the 3023-6 and 3047/8 transferred to SH they where actually clean and tidy and have since become SH Spec vehicles...

Idea of
SH Fares £2.30 Orrell-Wigan Bus
Orrell-Wigan Single Train is £1.90 Single and £2.00 return
Orrell-Skem bus is £1.70 i think this is from Skem depot days? yet is around same distance as Wigan from Orrell and 60p cheaper??

 

[DavidL]

Thanks for the info, Scotty - much appreciated!

There does seem to be quite a big fares discrepancy there. Is the Skelmersdale service subsidised by Lancs CC?

That aside, I didn't realise bus fares were so "home depot" specific; I'd always assumed they were regionally set by Arriva's area chiefs.
From a passenger point of view, I'm afraid that things have gone downhill since deregulation. Fares have rocketed and services have been withdrawn as passenger loadings have dropped off. I guess the latter may well have happened de-regulated or otherwise, but I do find the system we have now a bit frustrating.

Similar to your Orrell example, it's always amused me that the 10/10A from St. Helens to (say) Thatto Heath would be, I presume, now - around £2 - while the off-peak train fare would be 80p (or £1.10 Anytime)

 

[WatcherZero]

Dont know about Skem, Upholland buses are heavily subsidised by both Merseytravel (even though its outside their area in order to attract shoppers and workers) and South Lancs County Council.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Dont know about Skem, Upholland buses are heavily subsidised by both Merseytravel (even though its outside their area in order to attract shoppers and workers) and South Lancs County Council.

With Upholland in mind, the railway station there must be one of the worst situations in that part of the region that purports to serve its named community.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Skelmersdale is West Lancs not South* and for some new info Displays in Skem bus station have now been turned off as a costcutting measure.

Merseytravel support what Upholland services? Think all the main services aka the 375/385/395 are LCC/TFGM in Part cant think of any other than the 206 that doesnt serve Skelmersdale? think the 206 is a LCC/TFGM tender. The 311/45/50 may be supported but that doesnt serve Upholland and its relatively slow and unpassenger freindly... (Bootles spare old darts and the odd DLA Decker)

 

[WatcherZero]

No GMPTE at least didnt use to contribute to those routes which was why the fares jumped up when crossing the county boundary as the part in GM was commercially operated while in Lancashire/Merseyside was tendered, Merseytravel also contributed to the fares in Lancashire under the condition they were in the Skem/Southport direction and not in the Wigan direction so you had the oddity it cost less to travel the same route westerly as easterly through Upholland. Memories going back a decade here but I believe they did it via flat fare for the westerly direction fare while the Easterly direction was on distance/number of stops.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Skem isnt Merseyside so i dont get why Merseytravel would do that?
Reminds me is it true the 507/508's had Skelmersdale on there displays?

The 695 Nightbus is Subsidised by both GMPTE and LCC unsure of any other services that are subsidised.

On other news Orrell now has extended platforms in the "Kirkby" direction heard some prat in the delph tavern on sunday claiming that trains would be tripled in length lol oh what a pillock. as far as im aware only three trains are doubled in length? One Morning and two Evenings services?

Also why has the fare gone up 20% between Orrell-Manchester 20% seems very steep!

 

[WatcherZero]

Same reason GMPTE/TfGM are funding rail services outside their region to Hadfield/Glossop and were (until the Governments cuts) funding bus services well outside their borders too. Because workers were using the services to get to work in Merseyside, contributing to the Mersey economy.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Same reason GMPTE/TfGM are funding rail services outside their region to Hadfield/Glossop and were (until the Governments cuts) funding bus services well outside their borders too. Because workers were using the services to get to work in Merseyside, contributing to the Mersey economy.

Derbyshire County Council (from its base in Matlock) visited "Armageddon" on tendered bus services in the Glossop area as part of its cut-backs to such services in its county-wide administrative area. It is an unfortunate geographical matter that Derbyshire extends so far northwards in this region and there are those in the Glossop area who view their area importance as an area within Derbyshire County Council as similar to that felt by the good citizens of Leigh as being a "somewhat forgotten" part of Wigan MBC.

With regard to the Hadfield/Glossop line, the onward part of this rail line into Derbyshire, to the now terminal truncated sections of what was once a main electrified cross-Pennine line, is an anachronism that unfortunately was never resolved at the time of Local Government re-organisation at the time of the demise of the former Greater Manchester Council.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Two 156's on the 17:10-Kirkby tonight Only 3 Carriages fitted in the new Platform after the work.... Wooops!!

 

[MK Tom]

Speaking about Skelmersdale which by astounting coincidence I visited today, does anyone else agree with me that renaming upholland as 'Upholland for Skelmersdale' would boost its usage somewhat? The station usage figures are shocking because nobody seems to realise Upholland actually serves a town of 40,000 people. It's not even outside the town it's directly adjancent to one of its industrial estates. I walked to Skem town centre in 45 minutes from it today.

 

[Bevan Price]

Speaking about Skelmersdale which by astounting coincidence I visited today, does anyone else agree with me that renaming upholland as 'Upholland for Skelmersdale' would boost its usage somewhat? The station usage figures are shocking because nobody seems to realise Upholland actually serves a town of 40,000 people. It's not even outside the town it's directly adjancent to one of its industrial estates. I walked to Skem town centre in 45 minutes from it today.

Trouble with Upholland it that it has no proper car park and no bus service. Just space for a few cars on land near the station. If they want to increase usage, they would need to buy enough land to create a large car park - and I don't see West Lancashire council wanting to spend money on a project that would only help passengers going out of their area towards Liverpool, Wigan or Manchester.

 

[MK Tom]

I was thinking more as part of the regeneration of Skelmersdale and attracting inward business. Market the station as actually serving the town it's practically part of rather than making it sound like a village some distance away.

 

[Lampshade]

Two 156's on the 17:10-Kirkby tonight Only 3 Carriages fitted in the new Platform after the work.... Wooops!!

Northern Rail, making good use of resources there :roll:

Kirkby should be 2x142 maximum.

I was thinking more as part of the regeneration of Skelmersdale and attracting inward business. Market the station as actually serving the town it's practically part of rather than making it sound like a village some distance away.

Regeneration? The place needs bombing flat

Upholland station is actually quite far from both Up Holland and Skelmersdale town centres, but instead of serving both equally well, it serves both equally poorly.