ORR turns down ATW to London

[Mojo]

As seen in the letter here, the ORR has confirmed that it will not approve the track access agreement primarily over concerns of revenue abstraction.

 

[Proud Salopian]

Good. Now maybe ATW can concentrate on, I don't know... improving their existing services? :roll:

 

[The Planner]

I am pretty shocked about that, there were plenty of rumours abound that it was a cert.

 

[mumrar]

I am pretty shocked about that, there were plenty of rumours abound that it was a cert.

But that's all they are, rumours. Plenty of good ones have a long life on the railway.
I wouldn't want to be merlodlliws neighbours though - the partying, late night binge drinking, orgies and fireworks would keep me awake all night :P :P

 

[The Planner]

All the whinging about performance and paths can be put to bed too as the ORR didnt have a problem about that.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Good. Now maybe ATW can concentrate on, I don't know... improving their existing services? :roll:

Well said..

Perhaps even look at the services which they operate around.. erm..

Wales?!!!

I'm very glad that ATW aren't being able to run these services, WSMR is a very good company in my opinion and the main objection (apart from the obvious competition against WSMR) is the fact that i think ATW should concentrate on the services they run to/from/via Wales first, before expanding onto other new routes. I don't personally think class 158's would've been a very good type of train for a long 6? hour run to/from London ..

 

[F3000]

Just noticed that on the BBC website here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/8543836.stm Arriva are 'disappointed' over the decision.

 

[Ivo]

Just noticed that on the BBC website here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/8543836.stm Arriva are 'disappointed' over the decision.

Oh, boo hoo. What a shame. The ORR's decision is some of the best news I've had for ages. And I've had a lot of good news lately. The whole object was probably to drive WSMR out of business anyway, no matter what the scum say. Realistically a route from Aberystwyth to London would not be especially profitable, if at all, and would serve more to hinder another such operation. If they want a service to London, why not run an occasional extra service between Bridgend and Cardiff, via Barry, and send it to London (probably via Bristol TM and [gulp] Bath Spa as opposed to Bristol Parkway) using GWR metals? Given the ORR would have overall authority over the Arriva run, two such losers working against each other wouldn't hurt anyone. Except themselves.

Ha ha. You probably predicted that any response from me would be in favour of the ORR's decision, right?

 

[robert2000]

they do need to concentrate on existing services.

 

[Ivo]

I just noticed the following in the Arriva statement: "Aberystwyth will remain one of the few towns left in Britain without a direct link to the capital".

- The ATW spokeswoman.

FEW?! What does she mean, FEW? A few larger settlements with no direct link to London:

• Blackpool
• Grimsby
• Middlesbrough
• Mansfield
• Felixstowe
• Walsall
• Bolton
• many towns with no National Rail station, such as Peterlee, Ilkeston, Brixham

So what if Aberystwyth has no direct link to London? There are places that need it more, you know...!

 

[tbtc]

I just noticed the following in the Arriva statement: "Aberystwyth will remain one of the few towns left in Britain without a direct link to the capital".

- The ATW spokeswoman.

FEW?! What does she mean, FEW? A few larger settlements with no direct link to London:

• Blackpool
• Grimsby
• Middlesbrough
• Mansfield
• Felixstowe
• Walsall
• Bolton
• many towns with no National Rail station, such as Peterlee, Ilkeston, Brixham

So what if Aberystwyth has no direct link to London? There are places that need it more, you know...!

Yes, but Aberystwyth is both a tourist destination and a university town, meaning a fair amount of demand, something which a number of those places listed can't claim.

Additionally, some of the places listed have nearby options to London.

Let's face it, if you running the railway from scratch, Aberystwyth is a much better bet than Wrexham

 

[HSTfan!!!]

suppose the anti arriva massive will be happy

 

[Ivo]

suppose the anti arriva massive will be happy

(Can I suggest that you read all my posts again? )

@ tbtc - I appreciate the point, especially considering that Aberystwyth is a university town. However, the fact still remains that there are places that need a direct link to London more than Aberystwyth. Blackpool, for instance, would gain a lot from a direct link to London. Whilst it may have services to Preston, an occasional route to Birmingham and the capital would be of great benefit to it. I will admit though, I too would choose Aberystwyth ahead of Wrexham. Which leads me on to something: If Arriva are so desperate for a service from Mid-Wales into London, without needing to bother with running through New Street, why not re-time their services so that they link with WSMR services at Telford?

 

[HSTfan!!!]

I fail to see why we were aiming to drive wsmr out of business, wsmr is doing well, there is clearly and untapped market. How it atw going to drive anyone out of business when I know for a fact a vast number of people on this forum alone rate wsmr so well they'd travel with them over anything else. There's no harm in a little competition you know, and a direct service between any two places when you would have had to change can only be a good thing, particularly for passengers - not a day goes by when I have customers who'd rather catch a direct service than change at a station they may have to knowledge of.
I do however agree, we can make some progress on existing services.

 

[tbtc]

@ tbtc - I appreciate the point, especially considering that Aberystwyth is a university town. However, the fact still remains that there are places that need a direct link to London more than Aberystwyth. Blackpool, for instance, would gain a lot from a direct link to London. Whilst it may have services to Preston, an occasional route to Birmingham and the capital would be of great benefit to it.

I can see some logic in some London - Preston/ Lancaster services being directed/ extended to Blackpool when it gets wired up.

However, the leisure market there is mainly from the north of England - you'd get more Blackpool tourists from places like Sheffield/ Newcastle that lack a link than you would from London. There's still a market for Blackpool - London, of course.

 

[daikilo]

As seen in the letter here, the ORR has confirmed that it will not approve the track access agreement primarily over concerns of revenue abstraction.

So open access is what the ORR decides and cannot include increased competition on fares? Err, did I miss something about the value of privatised railways or are single-provider service-levels now a key decider?

 

[philjo]

I would suggest that ATW concentrate on getting Shrewsbury-Aberystwyth to run hourly to start with.
On the current timetable, if you want to go between Aberystwyth & stations up the Cambrian coast (e.g. Barmouth, Harlech etc) you have about an hour to wait at Machynlleth in both directions. Making the Aber service hourly should solve this problem.
The connections at Shrewsbury are not brilliant with some other ATW services either, never mind the WSMR ones.

I think it would also open up new journeys if the additional service went to Crewe & Manchester (& the airport if room there) instead of Birmingham (which would still get the existing 2-hourly service) - it would make easy connections at Crewe/Stockport/Manchester possible for northbound or trans-pennine travellers to/from Aberystwyth plus access to the airport.
If necessary, do a join/spit at Shrewsbury with the Cardiff-Manchester services.

 

[tbtc]

I would suggest that ATW concentrate on getting Shrewsbury-Aberystwyth to run hourly to start with.
On the current timetable, if you want to go between Aberystwyth & stations up the Cambrian coast (e.g. Barmouth, Harlech etc) you have about an hour to wait at Machynlleth in both directions. Making the Aber service hourly should solve this problem.
The connections at Shrewsbury are not brilliant with some other ATW services either, never mind the WSMR ones.

I think it would also open up new journeys if the additional service went to Crewe & Manchester (& the airport if room there) instead of Birmingham (which would still get the existing 2-hourly service) - it would make easy connections at Crewe/Stockport/Manchester possible for northbound or trans-pennine travellers to/from Aberystwyth plus access to the airport.
If necessary, do a join/spit at Shrewsbury with the Cardiff-Manchester services.

One option would be an hourly Birmingham - Aber service (taking the Birmingham - Shrewsbury slots of the existing bi-hourly service), with the Birmingham - Holyhead route taking the path of the "slow" LM service between New St and Shrewsbury. That way you get one operator on the Telford line (ignoring WMSR), which would solve some of the other problems discussed here recently.

 

[daikilo]

I would suggest that ATW concentrate on getting Shrewsbury-Aberystwyth to run hourly to start with.
On the current timetable, if you want to go between Aberystwyth & stations up the Cambrian coast (e.g. Barmouth, Harlech etc) you have about an hour to wait at Machynlleth in both directions. Making the Aber service hourly should solve this problem.
The connections at Shrewsbury are not brilliant with some other ATW services either, never mind the WSMR ones.

I think it would also open up new journeys if the additional service went to Crewe & Manchester (& the airport if room there) instead of Birmingham (which would still get the existing 2-hourly service) - it would make easy connections at Crewe/Stockport/Manchester possible for northbound or trans-pennine travellers to/from Aberystwyth plus access to the airport.
If necessary, do a join/spit at Shrewsbury with the Cardiff-Manchester services.

May I suggest that before we ask ATW to run hourly on the Cambrian Coast (which I could support as a customer service objective) we should first establish whether
1) the potential traffic is there and whether paths are available
2) whether we should first ask whoever (or grouping) to provide an hourly direct or one-connect service to London from all Welsh stations

When I compare what ATW offets today in terms of point-to-point deliverables with the last years of BR it is a very significant improvement.

 

[jopsuk]

Yes, but Aberystwyth is both a tourist destination and a university town, meaning a fair amount of demand, something which a number of those places listed can't claim.

St Andrews is a University town and tourist destination without a railway station

 

[tbtc]

St Andrews is a University town and tourist destination without a railway station

It is. And its where I spent the first seventeen years of my life. But Leuchars has two trains an hour to/from Edinburgh, with seven or eight buses an hour on the fifteen minute journey from Leuchars into St A. Plus there are the London trains. Its never had better public transport links in my lifetime.

Leuchars is really St Andrews Parkway. But if there were trains to St A then I'd expect them to run at least to/from Edinburgh if not further.

 

[TDK]

I am pretty shocked about that, there were plenty of rumours abound that it was a cert.

Obviously your rumours were from a porr source planner, you can't always believe what you hear.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Good. Now maybe ATW can concentrate on, I don't know... improving their existing services? :roll:

They need to get the money back they have wasted on the construction of the proposal, I wonder how much that cost them? I also wonder if came out of their pocket or the WAG's, I wonder if the ATW representative who came up with the idea is in hiding?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I just noticed the following in the Arriva statement: "Aberystwyth will remain one of the few towns left in Britain without a direct link to the capital".


- The ATW spokeswoman.

FEW?! What does she mean, FEW? A few larger settlements with no direct link to London:

• Blackpool
• Grimsby
• Middlesbrough
• Mansfield
• Felixstowe
• Walsall
• Bolton
• many towns with no National Rail station, such as Peterlee, Ilkeston, Brixham

So what if Aberystwyth has no direct link to London? There are places that need it more, you know...!

I thought the capital of Wales was Cardiff? Maybe an Aber Cardiff direct service would be a better option for the WELSH franchise holder?

I fail to see why we were aiming to drive wsmr out of business

You use the word "WE" do you work for ATW by any chance HSTfan?

 

[Greenback]

Yes, he does!!!

A Cardiff to Aberystwyth service would be fantastic - if it went via Carmarthen which isn't going to happen! Ever!

 

[thefab444]

I wouldn't want to be merlodlliws neighbours though - the partying, late night binge drinking, orgies and fireworks would keep me awake all night :P :P

Classic!

Possibly the best post on here so far this year.

 

[Donny Dave]

I wouldn't want to be merlodlliws neighbours though - the partying, late night binge drinking, orgies and fireworks would keep me awake all night :P :P

Hmm, he's not responded yet, he much be having 1 hell of a celebration :P

 

[The Planner]

A Cardiff to Aberystwyth service would be fantastic - if it went via Carmarthen which isn't going to happen! Ever!

Dont put it past the WAG....it is something they would come up with.

 

[tbtc]

Dont put it past the WAG....it is something they would come up with.

They'll be wanting every station in Wales to have a direct link to Cardiff at this rate...

 

[TDK]

Dont put it past the WAG....it is something they would come up with.

I think that is the way forward for ATW, they are the all Wales franchise and for the all Wales franchise to desctibe their capital as London and not Cardiff is bad PR especially for those WAG politicians who decide how much to fork out. I realy cant' see them keeping their franchise if they carry on as they are to be honest. This London venture was a poor decision and there is a lot more connected to this than meets the eye however there are some things that cannot be said publically on a forum.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

You use the word "WE" do you work for ATW by any chance HSTfan?

Yes I thought that was common knowledge lol

 

[Proud Salopian]

They'll be wanting every station in Wales to have a direct link to Cardiff at this rate...

Pwhelli-Milford Haven via Machynlleth, Shrewsbury and Newport!

(With a 158 of course...)

Do it!

And then perhaps also a local stopping service () Blaneau Ffestiniog-Aberdare via Llandudno Junction, Chester, Shrewsbury, Heart of Wales Line, Swansea and Cardiff Queen Street! Provided by a 153... refurbished of course. It would be one train each way per day. "The Wales Voyager" service...