ORR Station Flow Images

[jadmor]

I expect some posters may already have seen this, but for anyone else who may have missed it, here is a link;

kingfisher/station.md at main · anisotropi4/kingfisher

ORR FY2018/19 to FY2023/24 passenger travel data projected onto the centre-line track-model - anisotropi4/kingfisher

github.com

The program shows the size of traffic flow from any UK station; just pick the station from the attached list and an image will be generated. I was interested in the EDB data. To me, it shows there is a decent case to be made for upgrading the (current) direct line via Fife to Perth.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2024 ==

I can see that a thread has already been started on this topic.

 

[yorksrob]

Very interesting.

As an example, randomly clicked on Bootle in Lancashire and it showed a flow to Sandwich in Kent but nothing to Cornwall.

Presume this is direct ticket data !

 

[Royston Vasey]

This is really interesting, once you get your head around it, and a superb bit of coding and design.

One query/quirk though, I looked at the flow from Cambridge and it seems that the majority of passenger flow is down the WAML into Liverpool Street. In reality the majority of London Terminals passengers travel via the faster Hitchin and King's Cross route, which is shown as very light on the diagram.

So, for London Terminals tickets, is one specific London Terminal chosen by the program and all traffic from that origin assumed to terminate there?
https://github.com/anisotropi4/kingfisher/blob/main/image/C/CBG-rail.png

Nevertheless, a fantastic resource.

Please excuse the hotlink:

 

[DarloRich]

Is there an explainer page? Is this based on ticket sales? The thickness of the line indicating how many journeys were made on that route?

 

[Mr_B]

Disappointed to see nobody's bought Penzance <> Thurso. Presume the Penzance to Nairn? person was doing the Inverness-Aberdeen loop? Also some brave soul doing Pilning to Penzance

 

[yorksrob]

Am I missing something, however Ashford Kent seems to be missing. Quite a big station to forget.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2024 ==

Interesting that there are some flows between Brighton and Tunbridge Wells and even Uckfield ! A sign that there would be demand for a through route.

 

[OneOfThe48]

One query/quirk though, I looked at the flow from Cambridge and it seems that the majority of passenger flow is down the WAML into Liverpool Street. In reality the majority of London Terminals passengers travel via the faster Hitchin and King's Cross route, which is shown as very light on the diagram.

This seems to be because it is based on the station to station sales data, so it doesn't know precisely what routes people will use so instead displays them as using the shortest route geographically. As the WAML is shorter in mileage to London than the route via the East Coast Main Line to King's Cross, it displays them as using the Greater Anglia route instead. It could be improved if routing data was available, but I don't think there's any good way of knowing outside of ticket restrictions such as via and not via.

Am I missing something, however Ashford Kent seems to be missing. Quite a big station to forget.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2024 ==

Interesting that there are some flows between Brighton and Tunbridge Wells and even Uckfield ! A sign that there would be demand for a through route.

It's on there, listed as Ashford International. Suggests most people are travelling towards London as you would expect, but still some good flows towards Canterbury or Folkestone.

 

[yorksrob]

This seems to be because it is based on the station to station sales data, so it doesn't know precisely what routes people will use so instead displays them as using the shortest route geographically. As the WAML is shorter in mileage to London than the route via the East Coast Main Line to King's Cross, it displays them as using the Greater Anglia route instead. It could be improved if routing data was available, but I don't think there's any good way of knowing outside of ticket restrictions such as via and not via.




It's on there, listed as Ashford International. Suggests most people are travelling towards London as you would expect, but still some good flows towards Canterbury or Folkestone.

I can't see it on there. Only Ashford Surrey (which I would expect it to be above).

 

[alex17595]

I can't see it on there. Only Ashford Surrey (which I would expect it to be above).

Its directly next to it.

 

[yorksrob]

Oh, I see it now.

 

[ServerHoster]

Right, who bought a ticket from Ince & Elton to (I assume) Sanquhar? Two very random stations!

 

[yorksrob]

Nice coverage from Whitby to the rest of the country.

If anything, these maps show how people use the network to get around the country, rather than just their local lines.

 

[Gathursty]

Someone bought a Sugar Loaf to Northampton ticket.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Crazy to see how busy Waterloo is compared to the other Terminuses. Big bow tie.

 

[GatwickDepress]

To nobody's surprise, Hastings is a nice thick trunk up the Tonbridge line, with a stub to Bexhill and Ore.

Really impressed with this, although an interactable map with stations and figures would be something else.

Is there an explainer page? Is this based on ticket sales? The thickness of the line indicating how many journeys were made on that route?

The readme page has an explanation and a key on it.

 

[irp]

To nobody's surprise, Hastings is a nice thick trunk up the Tonbridge line, with a stub to Bexhill and Ore.

Really impressed with this, although an interactable map with stations and figures would be something else.

The readme page has an explanation and a key on it.

Another layer on openrailwaymap.org maybe ? Not that I have any contacts with them, but I wouldn't think it would be that difficult to do. It would be cool, I just wish I had the time to help!

 

[DarloRich]

The readme page has an explanation and a key on it.

thanks missed that - it means i can see some of my journeys from my local station!

 

[Chrisgr31]

what the data won’t show is the complete journey for those who have a season ticket to say London Terminals, and therefore if travelling to Birmingham, Bristol etc buy an additional ticket from London to that city. There journey will show as 2 separate trips.

it will also of course show some odd figures from stations used as common split ticket spots.

 

[Gaelan]

Some more background on the underlying data here:

ORR Origin-Destination Matrix 2021-22

Appears to have largely escaped people here's notice, but the ORR now publishes the full origin-destination matrix on the Rail Data Marketplace. This is a dataset that provides an estimate of the passenger count on every station pair. Downloading it directly from the RDM requires account...

www.railforums.co.uk

As others have said, it doesn't include any route information, so maps like this can only make an arbitrary guess as to route; it does split London Terminals (and other station group) tickets into the individual stations, but this is just a guess and has some anomalies - for example it wrongly attributes the majority of London-Sheffield tickets to Kings Cross.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Nice to see that some stations on the MML are already using East West Rail from Bedford through to Oxford!
(Picture is a partial screenshot for Kettering, with the as-yet unopened link from Bletchley to Bicester clearly visible)

 

[deltic]

A great resource - anyone know how you can amalgamate all the data together - eg show all trips on the West Coast Main between say London and Crewe regardless of original origin or final destination. This would really highlight the importance of the main rail corridors.

 

[FS-2-11]

This seems to be because it is based on the station to station sales data, so it doesn't know precisely what routes people will use so instead displays them as using the shortest route geographically. As the WAML is shorter in mileage to London than the route via the East Coast Main Line to King's Cross, it displays them as using the Greater Anglia route instead. It could be improved if routing data was available, but I don't think there's any good way of knowing outside of ticket restrictions such as via and not via.




It's on there, listed as Ashford International. Suggests most people are travelling towards London as you would expect, but still some good flows towards Canterbury or Folkestone.

That also explains why the major Glasgow-Edinburgh flow is shown via Bathgate and not Falkirk.

 

[TUC]

Crazy to see how busy Waterloo is compared to the other Terminuses. Big bow tie.
View attachment 149676View attachment 149677View attachment 149678

Also intriguing to see that Waterloo has a surprising number of flows to different parts of the North of the UK.

 

[Western 52]

Of course, the figures won't include use of rovers accurately, and have to make assumptions regarding use of season tickets.

Split tickets, as mentioned above are an issue too. I make the same journey every few weeks, and always split at Cardiff, so that will boost apparent use of that station.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Also intriguing to see that Waterloo has a surprising number of flows to different parts of the North of the UK.

Indeed, surprised with that.

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder if there's an element of people popping into their local travel centre at Waterloo for example, to buy a ticket to Inverness. Would this be recorded as a trip from Waterloo to Inverness I wonder ?

 

[MCR247]

I wonder if there's an element of people popping into their local travel centre at Waterloo for example, to buy a ticket to Inverness. Would this be recorded as a trip from Waterloo to Inverness I wonder ?

I wouldn’t have thought so. But if there is a valid routing from Waterloo to Northern destinations, then it could just be a more extreme example of the map showing splits between different permitted routes

 

[deltic]

Also intriguing to see that Waterloo has a surprising number of flows to different parts of the North of the UK.

This is just the way the model allocates trips to/from London terminals between the various stations. The same applies for all locations where the ticket is defined as [City A] BR. Eg a ticket sold from London BR to Manchester BR will be allocated between each London terminal to each Manchester terminal based on a rather old passenger survey of what stations people actually travelled to/from.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2024 ==

I wouldn’t have thought so. But if there is a valid routing from Waterloo to Northern destinations, then it could just be a more extreme example of the map showing splits between different permitted routes

No - its just model allocation

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2024 ==

I wonder if there's an element of people popping into their local travel centre at Waterloo for example, to buy a ticket to Inverness. Would this be recorded as a trip from Waterloo to Inverness I wonder ?

No - its just the way the model allocates trips between London terminals

 

[Verulamius]

Does this model for London Terminals also impact the annual station usage numbers?

Ie would the Cambridge to London flow be included in the Liverpool Street station numbers rather than Kings Cross?

 

[Stephen42]

Does this model for London Terminals also impact the annual station usage numbers?

Ie would the Cambridge to London flow be included in the Liverpool Street station numbers rather than Kings Cross?

Yes, it impacts the distribution across London Terminals including the total station numbers. The previous year where the Origin Destination Matrix has been published is using the older methodology based on the Travelcard data.

The latest year's data where the matrix will published in February uses an updated methodology reflecting the current timetable and likely journey patterns. It should improve some of the data for London Terminals but the other station groups remain using periodic counts to split where tickets are issued to groups rather than individual stations.