ORR new emissions data, now split by Operator

[renegademaster]

Do the "electric busses have lower lifetime costs" studies take into account the lower availability of them?
Unless they already have a lot of downtime you'll need more busses to run the same amount of services

 

[Trainbike46]

Do the "electric busses have lower lifetime costs" studies take into account the lower availability of them?
Unless they already have a lot of downtime you'll need more busses to run the same amount of services

I think they assumed opportunity charging (which is commonly used in the Netherlands), so actual availability is higher than a diesel as there's less maintenance needed, but would have to dig up the documents to be sure

 

[eldomtom2]

just like the proposed ban on the sale of new petrol / diesel cars has already been put back.

You mean the populist move by a desperate government that had nothing to do with what the auto industry was actually doing?

 

[HSTEd]

Do the "electric busses have lower lifetime costs" studies take into account the lower availability of them?
Unless they already have a lot of downtime you'll need more busses to run the same amount of services

The much lower maintenance bill would enable a significant reduction in staffing requirements for maintenance departments.

Local buses in Great Britain run for about 4 billion vehicle kilometres in 2021/22, there were 36,500 such vehicles registered in that year. That implies that each bus travels approximately 110,000km per year. Thats about 300km per day, or ~180-190 miles.
The ADL Enviro 400EV advertises a single charge range of something on order of 160 miles, and is fitted for DC charging at 112kW. It takes about 4 hours for a total recharge.

Assuming opportunistic charging for even a few minutes during turnarounds you are likely to be able to stretch the range to manage primarily on overnight charging. 20 extra miles would be something like 30 minutes extra on charge through the day.

There will be outliers, as there always are with average figures, but it seems likely that electric buses that are already extant could manage the required duty cycles on a very large fraction of total bus routes.


Electric buses save significant sums on fuel costs and on maintenance, this is likely to sweep away the marginal reductions in bus availability that come with a battery limited range.

 

[Bantamzen]

The much lower maintenance bill would enable a significant reduction in staffing requirements for maintenance departments.

Local buses in Great Britain run for about 4 billion vehicle kilometres in 2021/22, there were 36,500 such vehicles registered in that year. That implies that each bus travels approximately 110,000km per year. Thats about 300km per day, or ~180-190 miles.
The ADL Enviro 400EV advertises a single charge range of something on order of 160 miles, and is fitted for DC charging at 112kW. It takes about 4 hours for a total recharge.

Assuming opportunistic charging for even a few minutes during turnarounds you are likely to be able to stretch the range to manage primarily on overnight charging. 20 extra miles would be something like 30 minutes extra on charge through the day.

There will be outliers, as there always are with average figures, but it seems likely that electric buses that are already extant could manage the required duty cycles on a very large fraction of total bus routes.


Electric buses save significant sums on fuel costs and on maintenance, this is likely to sweep away the marginal reductions in bus availability that come with a battery limited range.

There's no doubting that electric buses will come into their own. However replacing 36K+ buses is going to take time and money. It ain't going to happen overnight, and companies will want to know that they can meet the needs of all their future fleets and routes before fully committing. Plus of course there's a lot of infrastructure to put in place before battery fully takes over.

 

[hwl]

There's no doubting that electric buses will come into their own. However replacing 36K+ buses is going to take time and money. It ain't going to happen overnight, and companies will want to know that they can meet the needs of all their future fleets and routes before fully committing. Plus of course there's a lot of infrastructure to put in place before battery fully takes over.

23.6% of the national bus fleet are used for TfL's operations and they have confidence and a clear transition plan. The main uncertainty is which manufacturer gets a particular order, not whether it is should be electric or not (still some hydrogen).

The last TfL diesel only bus was manufactured in 2017 and the last hybrid in 2020.

 

[Trainbike46]

There's no doubting that electric buses will come into their own. However replacing 36K+ buses is going to take time and money. It ain't going to happen overnight, and companies will want to know that they can meet the needs of all their future fleets and routes before fully committing. Plus of course there's a lot of infrastructure to put in place before battery fully takes over.

Of course buses won't be replaced overnight. They typically last around 15 years in revenue public transport service, and the vast majority of new buses since covid have been electric, so it's not unreasonable to assume that the fleet will continue to electrify over the years, with basically all buses being electric by 2035-2040 with all buses lasting their full expected lifespan

How did we end up talking about electric buses on a thread about a report on rail emission statistics anyway?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How did we end up talking about electric buses on a thread about a report on rail emission statistics anyway?

It came up because of the threat posed to the diesel railway by electric buses and coaches if rail emissions (at the point of use) are anything other than zero in 10-20 years' time.

 

[stuu]

There's no doubting that electric buses will come into their own. However replacing 36K+ buses is going to take time and money. It ain't going to happen overnight, and companies will want to know that they can meet the needs of all their future fleets and routes before fully committing. Plus of course there's a lot of infrastructure to put in place before battery fully takes over.

If you can run Aberystwyth-Carmarthen with electric buses you can run pretty much everything, certainly south of the Scottish Highlands