ORR calls for more competition in station catering

[87 027]

Two independent coffee stalls in Southeastern stations I regularly commute from have both been forcibly closed recently. In both cases the shutters are permanently down with a notice saying the lease has been forfeited and the outlet repossessed by the landlord.

 

[Travelmonkey]

*photos at BOD stoke* monkey plushie with a pint of beer on the right wearing a rainbow t-shirt and the other image is a pint glass raised to a passing avanti pendalino*

 

[Egg Centric]

Two independent coffee stalls in Southeastern stations I regularly commute from have both been forcibly closed recently. In both cases the shutters are permanently down with a notice saying the lease has been forfeited and the outlet repossessed by the landlord.

Which is another risk of SSP running everything. I assume due to the rampant price gouging combined with (according to the ORR although no idea how they'd know) artificially low rents that they're highly profitable but if they were to go bust we'd suddenly lose most of the catering in the big stations.

 

[Arkholme Ghost]

Lancaster is a wonderful station and an example of why we need competition. It’s has a wonderful Costa Coffee but a terrible cafe express and WH Smith.

It also has THE BEST independent station pub and will have an independent curry house soon.

So 1 out of 3 chains (Costa) is good but 1 out of 1 independents are excellent (The Pub)

 

[station_road]

I wouldn't mind it they have one at derby although I do confuse the gatline staff when niping out the ticketed area to use it,

The Greggs at Derby is run by SSP, and charges higher prices than a typical Greggs shop

 

[Djgr]

Bring back Travellers Fare!

 

[Travelmonkey]

The Greggs at Derby is run by SSP, and charges higher prices than a typical Greggs shop

indeed but still somewhat reasonable, I deffinatley was glad of it when we had that snow a few weeks back,

 

[Dr Hoo]

Bring back Travellers Fare!

Can you explain how that would increase competition? I'm confused.

 

[Haywain]

Two independent coffee stalls in Southeastern stations I regularly commute from have both been forcibly closed recently. In both cases the shutters are permanently down with a notice saying the lease has been forfeited and the outlet repossessed by the landlord.

Those sort of notices tend to mean that it's because rent hasn't been paid.

 

[87 027]

Those sort of notices tend to mean that it's because rent hasn't been paid.

No doubt that's the case - still a shame as to my mind they were better value for the consumer than the usual SSP outfits!

 

[TUC]

Just buy your food before you arrive at the station. Much cheaper.

 

[Haywain]

they were better value for the consumer than the usual SSP outfits

Was that because they didn't pay the rent?


On the sider subject of competition, I think it is fair enough that many small, and perhaps some medium sized, stations only have a single outlet because there isn't always room for competition - one small business getting by is better than two failing businesses. At larger stations the monopoly of SSP really does stifle competition though, and there needs to be more opportunities for independent retailers and those who don't follow the franchise model to get a foot in the door.

I recall that Stevenage station has several different coffee outlets in 'competition' but the reality is that they are all operated by SSP!

 

[Requeststop]

When I was recently home in the UK and back in the far South West, I found that there was no catering at all in Penzance, not even the hut that used to be outside the station. There is a shop in St Ives, and a lovely café at St Erth which has limited hours and friendly and hard working staff.. I noticed that the café at Redruth was also open. But in Truro, the franchise had changed and the level of service totally fallen. The choice of snacks, microwaved foods and choices of beverages has shrunk and you now cannot even but a magazine or newspaper at the station. The number of tables available for customers to sit at has shrunk as well. Zero chances of any competition at smaller stations.
I had the chance to visit Fort William, and they had a marvellous café with affordable food and drinks, even though there is a very limited rail service there compared to what is on offer in West Cornwall. I was not impressed by what was on offer by way of choice, for passengers at Glasgow Queen Street either.

I've no idea as to who organises and controls catering outlets in our stations but it really needs a kick up the backside. In so many places I saw recently, and admittedly in limited circumstances, it's poor.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When I was recently home in the UK and back in the far South West, I found that there was no catering at all in Penzance, not even the hut that used to be outside the station.

Has that gone? It was still there in the summer. I wonder was it temporarily removed for servicing or something?

Another station that has a woeful retail offering for its size (and lack of stuff nearby) is Bristol Temple Meads. They really need to repurpose the old trainshed car park into a Leeds style food concourse.

Preston is also rather lacking for its size, though there are at least a number of offerings within a short walk on Fishergate. Carlisle similarly but again there's plenty on the row of shops opposite.

There is a shop in St Ives, and a lovely café at St Erth which has limited hours and friendly and hard working staff.. I noticed that the café at Redruth was also open. But in Truro, the franchise had changed and the level of service totally fallen. The choice of snacks, microwaved foods and choices of beverages has shrunk and you now cannot even but a magazine or newspaper at the station. The number of tables available for customers to sit at has shrunk as well. Zero chances of any competition at smaller stations.
I had the chance to visit Fort William, and they had a marvellous café with affordable food and drinks, even though there is a very limited rail service there compared to what is on offer in West Cornwall. I was not impressed by what was on offer by way of choice, for passengers at Glasgow Queen Street either.

I've no idea as to who organises and controls catering outlets in our stations but it really needs a kick up the backside. In so many places I saw recently, and admittedly in limited circumstances, it's poor.

I think this demonstrates the positives of SSP's standard offerings - they might be pricey but are mostly OK and some are very good. Independent places can be hugely variable. Euston did used to have an independent shop, it was where the little lounge area is now, and it was by far the worst of the offerings there. M&S Food (which is franchised by SSP) is excellent and I wouldn't like to see that reduced in scope, I'd rather see one of those being mandatory at every station!

 

[yorksrob]

SSP can be ok, but can be pricey. It's good to have someone who's not SSP as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

SSP can be ok, but can be pricey. It's good to have someone who's not SSP as well.

It's good to have a chain that isn't SSP, like the Sainsbury's at Euston (which I'm almost certain isn't SSP) or maybe a Greggs. But most independents at stations are in my experience fairly rubbish, along similar lines to the way independent corner shops, which were typically not very good, have been eclipsed by small chain supermarkets.

 

[John Luxton]

There appears to be a good independent Buffet at Barnstaple - had a decent pasty in there around 18 months back. New Brighton appears to have an independent cafe (cash only according to the notice on the door) - not used it though. Also spotted on FB that the buffet at Llandudno Junction has reopened, operated by a local chain known as Porter's with a couple of other non station outlets in the area. Its a social enterprise associated with a mental health charity according to some press reports.

 

[Wolfie]

£700m revenue is all fine and well but it's not the same as profit. Stations may "only" get £100m in rental fees but how much work do they have to do for it? Is the electricity and heating included in the rental fees or does the shop have to cover it out of their £700m revenue in addition to staff costs? I do feel the ORR is being disingenuous.

Spot on. Frankly ORR is, despite lip service to consumer interests, mainly motivated by income for the railway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2023 ==

There should be a particular effort in attracting and retaining small, independent enterprises, such as the excellent little station buffet at Huddersfield, which unfortunately closed recently.

Attracting is one thing, retaining, particularly in a competitive rental market situation, is another. There is a real danger that your small independent puts in the graft to prove the demand and is then outbid at the next competition point.

 

[Haywain]

you now cannot even but a magazine or newspaper at the station

Newspapers and magazines are no longer the big sellers that they were and, as such, they take up valuable space for little return.

 

[aleandrail]

When I was recently home in the UK and back in the far South West, I found that there was no catering at all in Penzance, not even the hut that used to be outside the station. There is a shop in St Ives, and a lovely café at St Erth which has limited hours and friendly and hard working staff.. I noticed that the café at Redruth was also open. But in Truro, the franchise had changed and the level of service totally fallen. The choice of snacks, microwaved foods and choices of beverages has shrunk and you now cannot even but a magazine or newspaper at the station. The number of tables available for customers to sit at has shrunk as well. Zero chances of any competition at smaller stations.
I had the chance to visit Fort William, and they had a marvellous café with affordable food and drinks, even though there is a very limited rail service there compared to what is on offer in West Cornwall. I was not impressed by what was on offer by way of choice, for passengers at Glasgow Queen Street either.

I've no idea as to who organises and controls catering outlets in our stations but it really needs a kick up the backside. In so many places I saw recently, and admittedly in limited circumstances, it's poor.

Having just arrived off the sleeper. I went in that cafe outside Penzance station back in the early 80s and to this day it was one of the best Breakfasts I have ever enjoyed It was run by two ladies who made you feel very welcome and it was a lovely clean place.

 

[DMckduck]

The other thing with Reading is that everything is closed by mid-evening, which is ridiculous for such a large and busy station.

Reading is a bizarre station in this regard, its almost like it's stood still since covid and employed the same business strategy it had in the months after where nobody travelled after 8pm!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2023 ==

The Greggs at Derby is run by SSP, and charges higher prices than a typical Greggs shop

Same at Waterloo that's just opened, how they can justify what looks like a minimum of 25% further mark up is criminal when there is a greggs a two minute walk round the corner, also wouldn't surprise me if that one closed to further facilitate this.

 

[Meerkat]

I have a friend that works for a SSP station concession. I was shocked when he showed me the huge range of brands that he got (massive!) discounts on - ie those that were SSP concessions. Isn't it the fault of Network Rail (or TOCs) that they let everything to SSP, would have thought they would want to drag a sizeable competitor or two in to liven the market up - though whether that would lead to lower concessionaire profits or higher prices is debatable.
Local businesses are good if lots of the business is regular, but if its mainly infrequent travelers then familiarity is comforting - you know what you will get from a brand. I would be wary of turning up at a new place and going to an unfamiliar station outlet.
A problem for local businesses is probably staff. SSP can cover absence by moving people around branches temporarily, but one off businesses can't and if you can't be relied on to be open then departing passengers will go somewhere before getting to the station, and most towns have an ridiculous and growing number of coffee shops!

 

[Richardr]

Same at Waterloo that's just opened, how they can justify what looks like a minimum of 25% further mark up is criminal when there is a greggs a two minute walk round the corner, also wouldn't surprise me if that one closed to further facilitate this.

From the sound of it they are owned and run by different companies, so there is no incentive for the one round the corner to help the SSP concession.

 

[DMckduck]

From the sound of it they are owned and run by different companies, so there is no incentive for the one round the corner to help the SSP concession.

Greggs must have no issue with it themselves, notice they also have their fingerprints on M&S in airports and train stations. From what I can tell they've not been allowed to independently price items themselves in there.

 

[irp]

When I was recently home in the UK and back in the far South West, I found that there was no catering at all in Penzance, not even the hut that used to be outside the station.

Has that gone? It was still there in the summer. I wonder was it temporarily removed for servicing or something?

Was there in September. Sullivans is also literally across the road (Always visit when I get off 1C50)

 

[Brush 4]

What does price gouging mean? Undercutting? Gouging has a rather unpleasant association eg. eyes. Glad to see that Llandudno junction has reopened. Came off the Blaenau branch in June to find an empty buffet, chairs stacked on tables. Is Yeovil Junction still empty? It has a listed interior so, can't be altered too much, a real period piece.

 

[Class 170101]

The shops need to be open for wider hours. Lord Adonis said this over 15 years ago has that improved since then?

 

[Acfb]

Don't really make that much use of station catering apart from M&S sometimes. Also the Costa sometimes on the way to Platforms 13/14 at Man Picc. I think the cafe on Platform 4 has closed down at Haymarket (which was a Pumpkin IIRC) which is unfortunate and don't know if anything is replacing it, independent or chain

 

[sheff1]

As far as I know all the fixed catering operations at Sheffield (except the Tap which does not do food) are SSP, but I stand to be corrected. On the forecourt there is a mobile coffee truck which always seems to have plenty of punters, even when it is raining, so must be good - unfortunately when I went to try it I found they were card only so didn't get anything.
My usual morning pre-train action is to go to one of the Greggs in town for a bacon roll and coffee and then walk down. After one purchase many years ago I would never again buy an overpriced microwaved roll from one of station SSP places.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Sheffield also has a 'pop up' artisan bakery stall near the taxi rank most days, which does lovely pastries and loaves. There is also often a mobile cookie/brownie stall on the concourse, near the 'Miles' character. These aren't 'fixed'/SSP operations.

Neither of these does coffee or other drinks and obviously not bacon rolls though. (I will often also walk into the City Centre for a Greggs meal depending on available interchange time and weather.)