ORR acts on Delay Repay

[Haywain]

Saw this today from Rail Business Daily, a newsletter which appears in my work inbox every morning. It may be of interest.

Rail regulator acts to make claiming for train delays easier​

By Danny Longhorn
December 15, 2021


Simpler ways for passengers to claim compensation for train delays have come a step closer. The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) has now finalised a new licence condition on train companies which they must comply with by next April.
The licence condition requires train companies to comply with a new Delay Compensation Code of Practice which provides passengers with clear information about their entitlements to compensation both before and during their journey.
Train companies will also have to improve the way they process claims for compensation as a result of train delays, and publish data on how well they are meeting these obligations.
Advertisement

From April 2022:

• A simplified claims process must be in place to make it easy for passengers to submit claims for delay compensation.
• Clear and accurate information must be available to passengers on their rights to claim delay compensation – during the booking stage, online and in stations.
• In the case of a delay, train companies must inform passengers via in-train or on-platform announcements and electronic notifications of their rights to claim.
• Train companies will have 20 working days to process claims and if rejected, give passengers clear justification and details about how to contest the decision.

This new code of practice will help close the ‘compensation gap’, between those who could claim compensation and those that actually do so.
In 2019-20, only 37% of passengers eligible for compensation actually made a claim, a figure unchanged in recent years. The low claim uptake is caused by many passengers not knowing when they are eligible to claim, or from confusion over train companies’ compensation schemes.
Stephanie Tobyn, deputy director for consumers at ORR said: “All train companies have now agreed to these new requirements, so the process for making a delay compensation claim will be a whole lot clearer for passengers.

“When things go wrong, passengers will now have a clear understanding of the eligibility criteria for making a claim, the levels of payment, methods to claim, what information they will need to provide, timescales, payment options and how to contest a rejection.”

 

[Watershed]

Saw this today from Rail Business Daily, a newsletter which appears in my work inbox every morning. It may be of interest.

Good that they're improving the situation; lots of passengers simply aren't aware of their entitlement to claim and despite previous promises, announcements are often still missing.

But for this to be fully effective they also need to ensure that operators' staff are correctly briefed on the basics of things like when you would apply for a refund vs Delay Repay. And that claim systems are improved to reduce the incidence of false rejections, and to make split ticket claims easier.

The remaining holdout TOCs (Merseyrail, Grand Central, TfL Rail and London Overground) also need to be forced to update their Charters, to clarify that they will pay compensation in line with NRCoT minima, even if not to 'Delay Repay' standards.

Of course in an ideal world, there would simply be one industry-wide portal where claims are made. If you booked online/through an app, your selected itinerary would be monitored and if a qualifying delay is detected, you would be sent an email/notification inviting you to claim. Clicking a link in that message would sent you to the central portal, with the form prefilled as much as possible, so that it's much quicker to claim.

 

[yorkie]

I'd like to know what ORR things of the forms used by companies such as West Midlands Trains, Scotrail and Northern? If they think those forms and the processes are acceptable then this announcement is a damp squib. If they declare the forms and systems used by those companies are inappropriate then that would be a good step forward.

 

[MotCO]

Of course in an ideal world, there would simply be one industry-wide portal where claims are made. If you booked online/through an app, your selected itinerary would be monitored and if a qualifying delay is detected, you would be sent an email/notification inviting you to claim. Clicking a link in that message would sent you to the central portal, with the form prefilled as much as possible, so that it's much quicker to claim.

Agree that it would be ideal, but what if you held an Open Return ticket (or whatever it is called) which is not linked to a specific train? It may get messy when only some passengers get an automatic refund, and others have to claim - you may find inadvertent double claims etc.

Would it also be useful for TOCs to produce data showing, for each train delayed by reasons which enable the TOC to claim compensation from National Rail, the amount received from NR v the amount of refunds paid out. I'm sure that some (all?) TOCs make a profit in this area.

 

[yorkie]

Agree that it would be ideal, but what if you held an Open Return ticket (or whatever it is called) which is not linked to a specific train? It may get messy when only some passengers get an automatic refund, and others have to claim - you may find inadvertent double claims etc.

Auto Delay Repay is riddled with problems and only really works for journeys made on just one ticket and on just one train, and where Advance fares are held, and where the customer did not have the opportunity to take an earlier service.

In other words it does NOT work for the majority of journeys, and therefore I would rather it was abolished but the procedure for claiming be made easier and for claims to no longer be rejected for spurious reasons.

The only time I recall getting automatic delay repay, it was not done in an acceptable way and was difficult to get it sorted out and the company concerned (Virgin Trains; journey was Rugby to Watford Jn changing at MKC) refused to pay the amount I thought was due, and I had to drop it.

 

[Watershed]

Agree that it would be ideal, but what if you held an Open Return ticket (or whatever it is called) which is not linked to a specific train? It may get messy when only some passengers get an automatic refund, and others have to claim - you may find inadvertent double claims etc.

There are very few booking sites where you can book a ticket without selecting an itinerary, even if that itinerary is only nominal as in the case of flexible tickets.

Of course, that does not cover all circumstances - some people buy their ticket from a ticket office or machine and hence the railway won't even have their contact details. But let's not allow perfect to be the enemy of good.

Would it also be useful for TOCs to produce data showing, for each train delayed by reasons which enable the TOC to claim compensation from National Rail, the amount received from NR v the amount of refunds paid out. I'm sure that some (all?) TOCs make a profit in this area.

You say "profit" but really, it's all wooden dollars for the "franchised"/concession operators, as any money they receive will go back to their funding authority (DfT etc.) as income.

For Open Access Operators (and freight companies, who will usually have penalties for late delivery in their contracts) obviously it's a little different as they operate on a wholly commercial basis. But the compensation from Network Rail is not intended to correlate with the cost of Delay Repay; it's set at somewhat of an arbitrary level, primarily to give accountability for delays.

And whilst in some cases TOCs will indeed make a "profit" if you purely look at it from their balance sheet, there are also plenty of occasions where they will lose out.

 

[Haywain]

It may get messy when only some passengers get an automatic refund, and others have to claim - you may find inadvertent double claims etc.

This already happens.

Would it also be useful for TOCs to produce data showing, for each train delayed by reasons which enable the TOC to claim compensation from National Rail, the amount received from NR v the amount of refunds paid out.

This would serve no purpose other than to mislead, as the two figures are completely unrelated.

 

[yorkie]

This would serve no purpose other than to mislead, as the two figures are completely unrelated.

Yep and also train companies do incur additional costs, such as overtime payments and much more; I am sure you'd be able to provide a better insight into this than I!

 

[AlterEgo]

Train companies should be forced to display monthly statistics about how many rejections they make, plus how many successful appeals there were. This may focus some minds.

 

[Haywain]

As an aside, I am curious about the claim that "only 37% of passengers eligible for compensation actually made a claim", and how that is calculated. There is no doubt that many people do not claim and it would be more useful to look into why that is the case than to simply use a percentage figure. For example, people may not claim because the amount they would receive is very small or because they did not pay the fare (business travellers). Some may not even appreciate they can claim, due to inconsistencies in the application of DR across different TOCs - for example, someone who regularly travels with Chiltern may not appreciate what happens on TOCs that are part of DR, or a regular traveller with another TOC may not be aware of 15 minute DR.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2021 ==

Yep and also train companies do incur additional costs, such as overtime payments and much more; I am sure you'd be able to provide a better insight into this than I!

As well as additional costs, where the delay is the fault of the TOC, they won't be receiving anything from Network Rail and may be paying out significant amounts to NR and other TOCs.

 

[MadMarsupial]

A more interesting percentage would be what percentage of those actually making a claim are given what they are entitled to on their first application.

 

[JonathanH]

I rarely claim for delay repay but the one situation that really annoys is that where the first train on a half-hourly timetable is cancelled and the second half an hour later has its arrival time rounded down, even though the cancelled train would likely have had the same rounded down time. If a service on a half hourly timetable is cancelled, rounding down the gap to 29 minutes just because the train you eventually catch arrives 15 seconds before the advertised time is nonsense.

 

[Stephen42]

Of course in an ideal world, there would simply be one industry-wide portal where claims are made. If you booked online/through an app, your selected itinerary would be monitored and if a qualifying delay is detected, you would be sent an email/notification inviting you to claim. Clicking a link in that message would sent you to the central portal, with the form prefilled as much as possible, so that it's much quicker to claim.

The even more ideal world would be something similar to the booking system and provide APIs backed by an industry-wide portal to allow delay repay to be integrated within all the apps/sites. Avoids friction of another site, potential to use push notifications for outcome/queries and more easily redirect people to the refund flow if they didn't travel as most people would use the purchasing site. Suspect that might end up being a bit too effective.

 

[AlterEgo]

The even more ideal world would be something similar to the booking system and provide APIs backed by an industry-wide portal to allow delay repay to be integrated within all the apps/sites. Avoids friction of another site, potential to use push notifications for outcome/queries and more easily redirect people to the refund flow if they didn't travel as most people would use the purchasing site. Suspect that might end up being a bit too effective.

Ideal of course, but even a fair middle ground is for delay repay to be processed by an independent third party with each TOC being invoiced quarterly for their claims.

 

[ServerHoster]

I rarely claim for delay repay but the one situation that really annoys is that where the first train on a half-hourly timetable is cancelled and the second half an hour later has its arrival time rounded down, even though the cancelled train would likely have had the same rounded down time. If a service on a half hourly timetable is cancelled, rounding down the gap to 29 minutes just because the train you eventually catch arrives 15 seconds before the advertised time is nonsense.

Literally happened to me word-for-word!

Avanti (surprise surprise) was 10 late missing my connection at Crewe, my missed connection due to arrive at my destination 15:24. The next one was 30 mins later due to arrive 15:55. It actually arrives 15:53 and 1/2. For Avanti, it's "pay out 12.5%, case closed!".

 

[sonic2009]

Ideal of course, but even a fair middle ground is for delay repay to be processed by an independent third party with each TOC being invoiced quarterly for their claims.

Don't some TOCs outsource this already?

 

[Horizon22]

• In the case of a delay, train companies must inform passengers via in-train or on-platform announcements and electronic notifications of their rights to claim.

This will be an interesting thing to try and enforce. I think automated things should be ok (i.e if a CIS detects a train over 15 minutes late, it could say "you may be entitled to Delay Repay for this journey" etc.) but sometimes delays require manual intervention to note on a CIS and will be another thing already busy controllers would need to do. And then other on-board announcements might need to be manual so requires performance management to ensure it is done.

I don't disagree it will be useful but needs consideration on it being made practical.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Dec 2021 ==

Ideal of course, but even a fair middle ground is for delay repay to be processed by an independent third party with each TOC being invoiced quarterly for their claims.

Would be a sensible thing for a GBR body to do I suppose (although we mustn't fall into a "GBR will fix everything" trap!)

 

[AlterEgo]

Don't some TOCs outsource this already?

The third party isn’t impartial though. A delay repay clearing house would have significant economies of scale and would be less partial than the TOCs processing their own at (fairly significant) cost. It would also solve the issue of people not knowing which company to claim from, too.

 

[BayPaul]

Auto Delay Repay is riddled with problems and only really works for journeys made on just one ticket and on just one train, and where Advance fares are held, and where the customer did not have the opportunity to take an earlier service.

In other words it does NOT work for the majority of journeys, and therefore I would rather it was abolished but the procedure for claiming be made easier and for claims to no longer be rejected for spurious reasons.

The only time I recall getting automatic delay repay, it was not done in an acceptable way and was difficult to get it sorted out and the company concerned (Virgin Trains; journey was Rugby to Watford Jn changing at MKC) refused to pay the amount I thought was due, and I had to drop it.

As more tickets move to contactless, this seems like another large batch of tickets that would be fairly straightforward to move over to automatic delay repay, as your most likely train caught can be worked out by your actual tap in and tap out times, and compared to the planned journey. For large stations, where you don't tap in until you pass through barriers immediately before catching your train, it would be possible to provide another reader (green?) as a kind of 'check in', so that the system knows when you arrived at the station - this would allow you to prove you would have been on time for the train, had it been on time, and weren't just lucky to catch a late running one.

 

[Haywain]

As more tickets move to contactless, this seems like another large batch of tickets that would be fairly straightforward to move over to automatic delay repay, as your most likely train caught can be worked out by your actual tap in and tap out times, and compared to the planned journey. For large stations, where you don't tap in until you pass through barriers immediately before catching your train, it would be possible to provide another reader (green?) as a kind of 'check in', so that the system knows when you arrived at the station - this would allow you to prove you would have been on time for the train, had it been on time, and weren't just lucky to catch a late running one.

I think you are seeking to make things more complicated in the interests of simplification. The only reason for using your suggested green readers would be if delays were occurring, but in most cases you'd have to get past them to find out about delays which sort of defeats the objective.

 

[Paul Kelly]

your most likely train caught can be worked out by your actual tap in and tap out times, and compared to the planned journey

But how would you know what the planned journey was? It may have only been an intention in the passenger's head, not documented anywhere.

 

[D365]

Literally happened to me word-for-word!

Avanti (surprise surprise) was 10 late missing my connection at Crewe, my missed connection due to arrive at my destination 15:24. The next one was 30 mins later due to arrive 15:55. It actually arrives 15:53 and 1/2. For Avanti, it's "pay out 12.5%, case closed!".

Even worse when it’s a TOC (e.g. CrossCountry) that doesn’t do 15 minute delay repay!

 

[island]

As more tickets move to contactless, this seems like another large batch of tickets that would be fairly straightforward to move over to automatic delay repay, as your most likely train caught can be worked out by your actual tap in and tap out times, and compared to the planned journey.

I believe c2c does this and offers (or used to offer) compensation at just 2 minutes of delay.

It's feasible on their closed network.

 

[Snow1964]

And of course some TOCs go out of their way to make it hard to claim.

My daughter last week claimed from GWR (who sold the ticket). Had to download a separate app, register again (the existing GWR registration was insufficient), had to lookup all sorts of info from ticket and find a copy to attach it. (Whole process was a faff taking about 8 minutes). since then had update that they are checking with cross country.

Cross Country train was terminated early (at Birmingham NS), so had to get next one, and became one hour late, and local GWR train was 2 minutes late, so waiting to see if they pay 100% for 62 minutes delay at destination. (Clearly delay repay doesn’t work for advance singles on specific trains)

Oddly before the delay in Derby area, had been told would get compensation as her reserved seat in coach J wasn’t available (train was reduced to single unit without coach J), haven’t yet heard anything about that either, or is that another thing that has to be manually claimed (if so how do you do it, if already due 100% refund)

 

[yorkie]

And of course some TOCs go out of their way to make it hard to claim.

My daughter last week claimed from GWR (who sold the ticket). Had to download a separate app, register again (the existing GWR registration was insufficient), had to lookup all sorts of info from ticket and find a copy to attach it. (Whole process was a faff taking about 8 minutes). since then had update that they are checking with cross country.

Cross Country train was terminated early, so had to get next one, and became one hour late, and local GWR train was 2 minutes late, so waiting to see if they pay 100% for 62 minutes delay at destination.

If the delay was due to a XC train being delayed or cancelled, she sent the claim to the wrong company. I suggest you create a new thread in the Disputes & Prosecutions section with full details of the journey and we can advise accordingly.

 

[AlterEgo]

And of course some TOCs go out of their way to make it hard to claim.

My daughter last week claimed from GWR (who sold the ticket). Had to download a separate app, register again (the existing GWR registration was insufficient), had to lookup all sorts of info from ticket and find a copy to attach it. (Whole process was a faff taking about 8 minutes). since then had update that they are checking with cross country.

Cross Country train was terminated early (at Birmingham NS), so had to get next one, and became one hour late, and local GWR train was 2 minutes late, so waiting to see if they pay 100% for 62 minutes delay at destination. (Clearly delay repay doesn’t work for advance singles on specific trains)

Oddly before the delay in Derby area, had been told would get compensation as her reserved seat in coach J wasn’t available (train was reduced to single unit without coach J), haven’t yet heard anything about that either, or is that another thing that has to be manually claimed (if so how do you do it, if already due 100% refund)

She has of course claimed from the wrong company, because the ticket seller has nothing to do with delay repay. Another one who would benefit from the Delay Repay clearing house idea!

 

[Snow1964]

If the delay was due to a XC train being delayed or cancelled, she sent the claim to the wrong company. I suggest you create a new thread in the Disputes & Prosecutions section with full details of the journey and we can advise accordingly.

Appreciate the insight, but another example of making process complicated if ticket seller isn’t point of contact even though their company was 2 minutes of the 62 minutes delay. You answer implies would need to claim a bit of both TOCs as they both contributed to total delay

 

[AlterEgo]

Appreciate the insight, but another example of making process complicated if ticket seller isn’t point of contact even though their company was 2 minutes of the 62 minutes delay. You answer implies would need to claim a bit of both TOCs as they both contributed to total delay

No, you claim from the company which caused the first delay, which in this case is XC. It’s not a complicated process but it isn’t always obvious, we all appreciate. XC are responsible for the whole delay repay. It is far from intuitive, for sure.

 

[Haywain]

Oddly before the delay in Derby area, had been told would get compensation as her reserved seat in coach J wasn’t available (train was reduced to single unit without coach J), haven’t yet heard anything about that either, or is that another thing that has to be manually claimed (if so how do you do it, if already due 100% refund)

Yes, it does have to be manually claimed.

 

[BayPaul]

I think you are seeking to make things more complicated in the interests of simplification. The only reason for using your suggested green readers would be if delays were occurring, but in most cases you'd have to get past them to find out about delays which sort of defeats the objective.

I understand, but I think it could still make sense. If you need to go to the platform to find out about the delay, then you have already tapped in on a standard reader, so no green readers would be needed. I'm imagining a major terminus, where you arrive and could be standing around for half an hour waiting in the concourse before going through the barriers to your delayed train. You could automatically give delay repay to all contactless users who use that train, but that would mean that if you arrived just before it departed and were actually getting home earlier than normal you'd get delay repay, which isn't great, and might be a reason to not provide automatic delay repay for contactless, which would be a shame

But how would you know what the planned journey was? It may have only been an intention in the passenger's head, not documented anywhere.

By tapping in when you get to the origin station, either as normal, or (on large stations where you wait in a concourse before the gateline) on a green reader if you can see that your train is delayed.
If you look on RTT before even travelling to the station, and spend another 30 mins in work rather than at the station (for example), then obviously you wouldn't get automatic delay repay in this circumstance, though there would be nothing to stop you claiming in the traditional way.