Ormskirk Platform

[Jeremy B]

What is the purpose of the buffer stops & physical seperation of the Northern trains & the Merseyrail system at Ormskirk station. I arrived on the Northern service from Preston but due to travelling with others to attend a funeral I didn't have the opportunity to converse with the guard about this unusual set up.

 

[sprite]

It is there to seperate the line as the Merseyrail half is 3rd rail electrified.

 

[Tomnick]

Nothing to do with the electrification - keeping them as two independent single lines greatly simplifies the signalling.

 

[Jeremy B]

Just been trying to do some investigatory reading on it & see that Kirkby has the same sort of segregated set-up. Still seems a bit of a mystery to me but given the 2 explanations supplied so far are there similar examples in the 3rd rail SE/Southern/SWT areas

 

[Nym]

Cheaper to seperate them by buffers than it is to provide permissive signalling, or seperate platforms, since when done, services where not to run through.

 

[ole man]

Have through services ever ran on this line?

 

[First class]

Have through services ever ran on this line?

Yes, up to electrification. Liverpool-Wigan etc.

The through tracks are joined as far as I know, just a big buffer stop and sand drag built in.

 

[Lampshade]

Have through services ever ran on this line?

Yes, it was the main line between Preston and Liverpool up until 1970. Services used to run through to East Lancashire, Scotland, the Lake District and Blackpool.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, it was the main line between Preston and Liverpool up until 1970. Services used to run through to East Lancashire, Scotland, the Lake District and Blackpool.

On a historical note, the Liverpool, Ormskirk and Preston Railway was formed in 1846, but strangely enough it was purchased by the East Lancashire Railway originally and not the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

 

[yorksrob]

Just been trying to do some investigatory reading on it & see that Kirkby has the same sort of segregated set-up. Still seems a bit of a mystery to me but given the 2 explanations supplied so far are there similar examples in the 3rd rail SE/Southern/SWT areas

Not really. The diesel islands tend to be integrated with electric services, sharing (electrified) tracks, platforms and depots. LU tends to me more segregated, but then again, even these tend to allow a certain amount of through running (Wimbledon - Putney for example).

 

[WatcherZero]

Thought that occured to me, the trains offload at different ends of the same platform, why didnt they simply put in an island and two sets of spring loaded points, no signalling required trains kept on opposite platforms, interchange much easier.

 

[Tomnick]

Why bother with points? If it's that much of an issue to walk along a platform, two independent single lines could terminate either side of an island platform - as soon as you connect them in any way, you're compromising the integrity of the One Train Working sections on either side.

 

[yorksrob]

I suspect the building works required would have put them off. I think at one time Ormskirk had a siding alongside the buffers which linked the two systems.

 

[Railsigns]

Why bother with points? If it's that much of an issue to walk along a platform, two independent single lines could terminate either side of an island platform - as soon as you connect them in any way, you're compromising the integrity of the One Train Working sections on either side.

Yes, indeed, plus you can't just drop a set of facing spring points into a running line without some form of signalling to confirm that they're set correctly.

 

[WatcherZero]

Simple local signal indicating point setting, yes the long walk is a common complaint at Kirkby and no the tracks wouldnt be physically connected, if you picture an island platform solution each approaches on their respective up or down line to buffers and then when they reverse their automatically put on the right line for the return journey. Since the timings are arranged for trains to be in the same platform at the same time for interchange they walk off one and straight onto the other.

Course they could always just extend the electrification

 

[Tomnick]

If the two single lines aren't physically connected, why do you need any points to complicate things?

 

[WatcherZero]

At some point or other one single bay platform has to become the two running lines does it not? Points are required, better to have them supporting easy interchange than running single for the 50m into the platforms.

 

[Tomnick]

No - both lines into Ormskirk are single lines for quite some distance. On the Preston side, it's one OTW section right through from Rufford.

 

[WatcherZero]

Was talking of Kirkby since the topic veered in that direction.

 

[Tomnick]

Kirkby's no different. In any case, if you did have a double-to-single connection, you'd need full signalling, not just points indicators.

 

[Bevan Price]

Was talking of Kirkby since the topic veered in that direction.

Kirkby to Wigan line is single line as far as Rainford.
Kirkby to Liverpool is single line to the site of the former Fazakerley Junction.
This was formerly part of the main line from Liverpool Exchange to Wigan Wallgate & Manchester Victoria, and once had (steam) expresses taking 45 minutes between Liverpool & Manchester, some trains continuing to Leeds or Newcastle.

 

[driver9000]

The through tracks are joined as far as I know, just a big buffer stop and sand drag built in.

There is no physical connection at Ormskirk. The two sides are separated by a short gap between the rails.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No - both lines into Ormskirk are single lines for quite some distance. On the Preston side, it's one OTW section right through from Rufford.

On the Merseyrail side the double line begins/ends just outside the station. The diesel side is single line all the way to Farington Curve Jn with a loop at Rufford.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I suspect the building works required would have put them off. I think at one time Ormskirk had a siding alongside the buffers which linked the two systems.

Correct, there was a connecting line at Ormskirk alongside the abandoned side of the station. The points were padlocked when not in use and any train coming off the Merseyrail section couldn't leave Ormskirk until the train staff had been brought up from Rufford. I think the pointwork was removed around 20 years ago although the physical remains of the loop only disappeared around 2 years ago at the same time the curves into Ormskirk were eased - this was a legacy of the points for the loop.

 

[WatcherZero]

Kirkby to Wigan line is single line as far as Rainford.
Kirkby to Liverpool is single line to the site of the former Fazakerley Junction.
This was formerly part of the main line from Liverpool Exchange to Wigan Wallgate & Manchester Victoria, and once had (steam) expresses taking 45 minutes between Liverpool & Manchester, some trains continuing to Leeds or Newcastle.

Double briefly at Headbolt lane for the depot access, still again if its single makes it even easier, why didnt they build facing platforms originally?