Original GN Electrics timetable

[TrenHotel]

I seem to recall that, in the original plan for the scheme, it was intended that frequency of the inner suburban sevices would be increased (possibly from 3 to 4tph), I don't remember the detail), once traffic had built up (which was the expectation), and the fleet size was specified based on this.

So what went wrong, then? Did the traffic just never build up? When did the late-evening services get cut back?

 

[Andy R. A.]

Marvellous insight - I would love to hear more GN memories!

I kept a detailed record of my time at Finsbury Park between 1979 and 1981 and my time on the GN. It certainly wasn't all plain sailing, we had a period of train crew shortages, and the 313s were still not performing well. The Rush Hours could be 'quite something'. My first day was on the 30th May 1979, and the details I posted on FB about three years ago now. The whole two and a bit years at Finsbury Park can be found by trawling forwards through the day to day experiences, which included covering turns 'down the hole' at Moorgate. Link to the first day below :-
https://www.facebook.com/WestCoastS...JjFTnXzUHqqYZ7hA4JShAJ1Eyokf7K3zHNAtiYqTSx6vl

 

[Enmgy17]

This maybe of some interest. Some pages from 'The Book' we had at Finsbury Park. There was a limit on how many pages that can be uploaded, so not complete. This was the 81-82 timetable and I had compiled this just before I left the area for another job. The main changes from the previous few years were that the 313 Peak hour semi-fasts for Welwyn Garden City were rerouted to run into Kings Cross rather than Moorgate, and the Roystons had been retimed to run ten minutes earlier.

This was quite the insight, even if it is only samples for the start of service (I happen to have the 81-82 WTT for the GN), and was quite interesting to see that most of those Outer Suburbans seem to be formed of just a single 312. Makes me wonder how the Evening peak went...

 

[Magdalia]

interesting to see that most of those Outer Suburbans seem to be formed of just a single 312. Makes me wonder how the Evening peak went...

There was splitting at the end of the morning peak and joining at the start of the evening peak, both at Kings Cross and Royston.

In the winter 1982/83 timetable 4 pairs came out of Hornsey for the 1510/1640/1723/1733 Kings Cross departures, and 2 pairs came out of Letchworth for the 1555/1655 Royston departures.

The 1981/82 timetable should have similar ecs moves.

 

[Enmgy17]

The 1981/82 timetable should have similar ecs moves.

Ended up looking at the WTT and sure enough the 1440/1640/1725/1736 off Kings Cross would have likely been the pairs, the Roystons were the same timings in 81/82 as in 82/83.

 

[Magdalia]

This maybe of some interest. Some pages from 'The Book' we had at Finsbury Park. There was a limit on how many pages that can be uploaded, so not complete. This was the 81-82 timetable

I need to say a proper thanks for this, which is a fascinating record.

I have spent part of today putting the class 312 diagrams into a spreadsheet.

If you have time over the weekend, it would be great to be able to see the rest of the day.

 

[Andy R. A.]

I need to say a proper thanks for this, which is a fascinating record.

I have spent part of today putting the class 312 diagrams into a spreadsheet.

If you have time over the weekend, it would be great to be able to see the rest of the day.

The next bit from 'The Book'. One thing about this service from 1981 was that it was the first one that introduced some 'economy' measures in the GN Suburban service. Where the three trains on both the Hertford and Welwyn GC services were reduced to two on each line from about 2000, making it what had been a 'Sunday' service.




I've got the rest of the weekend workings if they would be of any interest ?

 

[RUK]

Yes very much so, both peak and off-peak. Utilisation of the 717 fleet is extraordinarily low.

Perhaps the slack in the fleet will reduce, if their availability reduces below what was expected over time, as has happened with the Class 700s.

 

[Enmgy17]

The next bit from 'The Book'. One thing about this service from 1981 was that it was the first one that introduced some 'economy' measures in the GN Suburban service. Where the three trains on both the Hertford and Welwyn GC services were reduced to two on each line from about 2000, making it what had been a 'Sunday' service.


I've got the rest of the weekend workings if they would be of any interest ?

Very nice information, I'm for sure interested in the weekend workings.

 

[Andy R. A.]

Very nice information, I'm for sure interested in the weekend workings.

Part 3 of 'the Book', containing most of the Saturday workings following on from the last batch. Last ones with the Sundays to follow shortly.

 

[Clarence Yard]

So what went wrong, then? Did the traffic just never build up? When did the late-evening services get cut back?

When BR ran out of money in autumn 1980, economies had to be made everywhere. Starting in 1981, there were cutbacks on the GN.

 

[Magdalia]

When BR ran out of money in autumn 1980, economies had to be made everywhere. Starting in 1981, there were cutbacks on the GN.

The summer 1981 timetable should have started on 11 May but was postponed until 1 June to give more time to implement the cutbacks.

 

[Andy R. A.]

Last bit of 'The Book' for 81/82 covering mostly the Sunday workings.

 

[Enmgy17]

Last bit of 'The Book' for 81/82 covering mostly the Sunday workings.

Thanks for taking the time to share the rest of the book. It does provide a nice insight to how the service used to run back then.

 

[Dave W]

These Sunday workings are interesting - I was of the understanding the Moorgate branch was closed all weekend and had been for a long time - it certainly was when I first came to London, but your documents say otherwise! 10 minutes is also rapid - were these trains stopping at Highbury only?

 

[Magdalia]

These Sunday workings are interesting - I was of the understanding the Moorgate branch was closed all weekend

Sunday Moorgate ended in 1986, Saturday in 1987, and late evening weekdays in 1988.

 

[Andy R. A.]

These Sunday workings are interesting - I was of the understanding the Moorgate branch was closed all weekend and had been for a long time - it certainly was when I first came to London, but your documents say otherwise! 10 minutes is also rapid - were these trains stopping at Highbury only?

No, all stations. It is only four miles from Moorgate to Finsbury Park. When the line was still operated by London Underground Essex Road was shut on Sundays. My visits there in BR days always made me wonder how it managed to keep open as it always seemed to be deserted, but then my visits were normally outside of the Peak periods.

 

[Magdalia]

Last bit of 'The Book' for 81/82 covering mostly the Sunday workings.

Thanks for sharing all of it, which confirms my recollection that the Saturday and Sunday trains were only 4 cars.

This was quite the insight, even if it is only samples for the start of service (I happen to have the 81-82 WTT for the GN), and was quite interesting to see that most of those Outer Suburbans seem to be formed of just a single 312. Makes me wonder how the Evening peak went...

I have a bit of a mystery with the Monday-Friday class 312 diagrams, and I'm hoping that the WTT may help.

If I am reading "the book" correctly, diagrams 78+79 finish the morning peak at Hornsey after working 1R81 0858 from Royston. But in the afternoon diagrams 78+79 reappear on 2R53 1555 from Royston, without working a passenger train down from Kings Cross. Is there an ECS move in the WTT that explains how they get to Royston for 1555?

In the 1982/83 timetable the 1555 from Royston is ECS from Letchworth, but there is a balancing ECS move into Letchworth off 0804 from Kings Cross that seems not to exist in 1981.

 

[Andy R. A.]

Thanks for sharing all of it, which confirms my recollection that the Saturday and Sunday trains were only 4 cars.

I have a bit of a mystery with the Monday-Friday class 312 diagrams, and I'm hoping that the WTT may help.

If I am reading "the book" correctly, diagrams 78+79 finish the morning peak at Hornsey after working 1R81 0858 from Royston. But in the afternoon diagrams 78+79 reappear on 2R53 1555 from Royston, without working a passenger train down from Kings Cross. Is there an ECS move in the WTT that explains how they get to Royston for 1555?

In the 1982/83 timetable the 1555 from Royston is ECS from Letchworth, but there is a balancing ECS move into Letchworth off 0804 from Kings Cross that seems not to exist in 1981.

Unfortunately I left Finsbury Park in July 1981, and I hadn't been able to retain the WTT which might have shown the solution. As the Royston service had been revised from June 1981 the previous years WTT, which I still have, isn't much help.

 

[Taunton]

No, all stations. It is only four miles from Moorgate to Finsbury Park. When the line was still operated by London Underground Essex Road was shut on Sundays. My visits there in BR days always made me wonder how it managed to keep open as it always seemed to be deserted, but then my visits were normally outside of the Peak periods.

Essex Road is a typical example of an inner city station not really being in the wrong place, but the service going in the wrong direction. If it was at right angles, to Kings Cross and the West End, it would be far more use. The relative number of buses going that way along Essex Road, compared to those running along the A1 parallel to the railway, is a bit of a pointer. This would also show up at Highbury, next along the line, with (apart from those cross-platform connecting) the Victoria Line taking most entering the station, and the Moorgate a much lesser number. You probably got this at Finsbury Park as well.

 

[Dave W]

No, all stations. It is only four miles from Moorgate to Finsbury Park. When the line was still operated by London Underground Essex Road was shut on Sundays. My visits there in BR days always made me wonder how it managed to keep open as it always seemed to be deserted, but then my visits were normally outside of the Peak periods.

I wonder why they've been retimed to 14 minutes!

I only used Essex Road once - it seemed like the land that time forgot. Almost, perhaps, like those desolate inner city surface stations (cf. Harringay, amongst others)

 

[Failed Unit]

No, all stations. It is only four miles from Moorgate to Finsbury Park. When the line was still operated by London Underground Essex Road was shut on Sundays. My visits there in BR days always made me wonder how it managed to keep open as it always seemed to be deserted, but then my visits were normally outside of the Peak periods.

Part of the issue now is the dwell. It maybe needed but typically 1 min at old Street. The Drayton Park stop isn’t rapid because of the voltage change. Not sure if line speed is reduced but old street - Essex Road and the Highbury and Islington isn’t rapid. Saying that unless things were slowed down the 717s should have better performance then the 313.

 

[Enmgy17]

I have a bit of a mystery with the Monday-Friday class 312 diagrams, and I'm hoping that the WTT may help.

If I am reading "the book" correctly, diagrams 78+79 finish the morning peak at Hornsey after working 1R81 0858 from Royston. But in the afternoon diagrams 78+79 reappear on 2R53 1555 from Royston, without working a passenger train down from Kings Cross. Is there an ECS move in the WTT that explains how they get to Royston for 1555?

In the 1982/83 timetable the 1555 from Royston is ECS from Letchworth, but there is a balancing ECS move into Letchworth off 0804 from Kings Cross that seems not to exist in 1981.

In the WTT there is a 5R86 12+30 Hornsey EMUD - Letchworth EMU Sdg arriving at 13+13 which my guess would be these two units.

Funnily enough the ECS off diagrams 76+77 from Royston - Letchworth off the 09:10 from Kings Cross doesn't exist in the 1981 WTT but the ECS for the 16:55 does, my guess is it was added in via a supplement but I only have Supplement No.2 which only has a handful of changes and that isn't one of them.

 

[Andy R. A.]

Part of the issue now is the dwell. It maybe needed but typically 1 min at old Street. The Drayton Park stop isn’t rapid because of the voltage change. Not sure if line speed is reduced but old street - Essex Road and the Highbury and Islington isn’t rapid. Saying that unless things were slowed down the 717s should have better performance then the 313.

The General Linespeed between Drayton Park and Moorgate was 30mph back then. The 313s seemed to manage the 10 minutes between Moorgate and Finsbury Park with no bother, including the voltage changeover at Drayton Park, and the 'Moorgate Control' of 10mph arriving in Moorgate. My hand drawn diagram of the old PSB layout has the speed restrictions marked in orange.

 

[Failed Unit]

That is very interesting, although I must admit I have not really noticed on the branch any real difference in the latest tech changes (313 - 717 - Digital signals). The extra dwells in the peak now are certainly needed but they used to know how to fill a 313 in the past.

 

[Bikeman78]

There has been talk of 4tph off-peak on each of the arms of the Great Northern inner suburbans for years, but any attempts have quickly failed due to a lack of traincrew and a lack of will.

It was achieved for the last year or so of the class 313. Then it was cut back for Covid and never restored.

 

[Magdalia]

In the WTT there is a 5R86 12+30 Hornsey EMUD - Letchworth EMU Sdg arriving at 13+13 which my guess would be these two units.

Thanks, that "joins the dots".

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I have a 1982 "Spotter's Companion" which shows 313.008/034/035/039 allocated to Clacton (CC).