Ordsall Chord

[Altfish]

Quite why the opportunity to be signalled straight onto the Up Oxford Road from Oxford Road station wasn't taken only Network Rail know.

Probably because Oxford Road is due to be remodelled in the next phase of the works, so why do it twice?

 

[QueensCurve]

Just a clarification regarding the bi-directional signalling. For some inexplicable reason, the existing bi-di from Piccadilly to Oxford Road has not actually be extended westwards to Deansgate. You can still only actually leave Oxford Road signalled onto the Down Oxford Road, to the next signal between Oxford Road and Deansgate. Here you receive either a D or a U. D continues on the Down Oxford Road into Deansgate station, and U crosses onto the Up Oxford Road into Deansgate station.

There is no route from the Up Oxford Road to the CLC lines.

Quite why the opportunity to be signalled straight onto the Up Oxford Road from Oxford Road station wasn't taken only Network Rail know.

As a staunch advocate of bidirectional signalling, even i would conceed that there is probably little value of it on a route as busy as this one.

 

[notlob.divad]

What is the reason for all the bi-direction signalling? Is it just belt and braces to allow opposite road running during times of disruption / engineering? I cannot see much of it being used on a scheduled basis. There is going to be so much traffic squeezing through these flat junctions in both directions that you are not going to have opportunity to switch to bi-direction running.

 

[snowball]

A new picture posted by "Aerial Video TV", posted by jrb on SSC.

Looking north, obviously.

https://s30.postimg.org/gt9wqqnj5/image.jpg

 

[edwin_m]

What is the reason for all the bi-direction signalling? Is it just belt and braces to allow opposite road running during times of disruption / engineering? I cannot see much of it being used on a scheduled basis. There is going to be so much traffic squeezing through these flat junctions in both directions that you are not going to have opportunity to switch to bi-direction running.

I've seen it used through Piccadilly several times, once or twice when something has failed but also when right hand running was adopted for no obvious reason. I assume the latter was some sort of signalling component that had failed but only affected moves in one direction. In each case there was a large amount of disruption but without the bi-di things would have stopped completely.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The first signal gantry between Piccadilly and Oxford Road is controlled by Manchester ROC Oxford Road work station, that controls the Oxford Road lines upto and including Castlefield Jn, and then onto the CLC lines.

Manchester ROC Central work station then takes over from Castlefield Jn (exclusive) towards Eccles and Salford Crescent, where Eccles and Manchester Piccadilly SCC take over the respective lines.

Seems a bit unnecessary to have a split of control in the middle of this sequence of closely-space junctions that need to be worked as one otherwise they will just fall over. Is this the final configuration?

 

[snowball]

More new pictures by Freel07 posted on SSC.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=137580592&postcount=1990

 

[SodTheDrummer]

A few new shots on ATV's blog too...

http://www.aerialvideo.tv/uncategorized/ordsall-chord/

I love these aerial shots as they give a great perspective on what's changed which you can't always see from ground level..

But i never fail to be impressed whenever I drive by at the sheer scale of it! hock:

Anyone been up to New Bailey car park recently and got shots of what's going on around Salford Central?

 

[Sox]

A few new shots on ATV's blog too...

http://www.aerialvideo.tv/uncategorized/ordsall-chord/

I love these aerial shots as they give a great perspective on what's changed which you can't always see from ground level..

But i never fail to be impressed whenever I drive by at the sheer scale of it! hock:

Anyone been up to New Bailey car park recently and got shots of what's going on around Salford Central?

Thanks for the link, ref the last photograph:

Is it me or does the new rail bridge across the Irwell not seem to present an awkward angle to the newly installed structure departing the existing railway and crossing over the junction of Liverpool Rd/Water St?

Like it should have been designed with a slight curve?

 

[WatcherZero]

Your limited in curvature by the junction with the existing line but once that is cleared it can then begin to turn more sharply. You dont want to have a curved bridge if you can avoid it though.

 

[Sox]

I can imagine the Victorians would have constructed a nice, elegant, arched, brick built structure (there are many examples) but a curve must be more difficult out of steel (especially as, in this case, you may want to avoid placing piers in the river).

Geometrically, a straight structure (bridge), accommodating a curved track, will need a wider design.

 

[edwin_m]

I can imagine the Victorians would have constructed a nice, elegant, arched, brick built structure (there are many examples) but a curve must be more difficult out of steel (especially as, in this case, you may want to avoid placing piers in the river).

Geometrically, a straight structure (bridge), accommodating a curved track, will need a wider design.

The Victorians would have demolished Stephenson's bridge without compunction, allowing a much simpler new structure which would probably have looked much like many of the other bridges and viaducts in the area. I would guess however a steel span with trusses as the length and limited height would be too difficult in brick.

Curved bridges are tricky also because as a train passes the weight distribution shifts from side to side as well as from end to end.

 

[bitmadmax]

I remember reading in a press release that the ordsall chord will join the "castlefield junction" railway with the "deal street junction" railway. I was curious that I couldn't see a Deal Street in the vicinity between ordsall lane junction and Victoria on any of the old OS maps. Approximately where is this junction located?

 

[Foggycorner]

Look in the Quail map book 4 page 46
Deal st jcn is between vic and salford central
castlefield jcn is the junction of the liverpool lines at deansgate

 

[Elecman]

Deal street was on the Victoria side of Salford Central about the end of the old Exchange platform

 

[Foggycorner]

if you are looking for railway places its a good idea to look at railway based maps not road based maps

 

[rebmcr]

if you are looking for railway places its a good idea to look at railway based maps not road based maps

If you're looking for the namesake of a junction with 'street' in the name, a street map is perfectly reasonable.

 

[snowball]

I think this entry may be the present-day remains of Deal Street:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4...4!1shhIaXmkvV9xgcRiLb1yOLw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

It was either severed or bridged when the railway was built. If it wasn't severed then, then it was severed and reduced further by 19th century railway widening. The main part north of the railway was then lost to an iron works, but the remaining stub south of the railway continues to be named on OS large-scale maps as late as the 1970s.

All tracks from Victoria to Deal Steet Junction were electrified as part of the Chat Moss wiring, but from that junction westward the Bolton lines become separate from the Chat Moss lines and have yet to be wired.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is it me or does the new rail bridge across the Irwell not seem to present an awkward angle to the newly installed structure departing the existing railway and crossing over the junction of Liverpool Rd/Water St?

Like it should have been designed with a slight curve?

I think that, as edwin m says, the alignment of the Chord is dictated by the decision to avoid demolishing Stephenson's Bridge that carried the approach to Liverpool Road station over the Irwell. As a result the southern end of the Chord is sharply curved and the northern part (top right in this map) is relatively straight:

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/pictures/980x653fitpad[31]/3/3/2/1440332_plan-crop.jpg

There is some curvature of the track where it crosses the river but as the map shows this is accommodated by widening the bridge structure rather than curving it.

The bridge is necessarily of large span caused by the high skew so I don't think the Victorians could have built a brick arch. Keeping the bridge straight is probably what allows the tennis-racket-like "network arch" construction to be used.

 

[rebmcr]

Keeping the bridge straight is probably what allows the tennis-racket-like "network arch" construction to be used.

Yes, compare to the steel box-tube that had to be used on the new Airport Junction flyover for Crossrail capacity. It's a massively more intrusive structure that I have no doubt would not have been approved for this area.

 

[mr_jrt]

You can see Deal St. on this map: http://maps.nls.uk/view/126522809#zoom=5&lat=3310&lon=9226&layers=BT

 

[Greybeard33]

I think this entry may be the present-day remains of Deal Street:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4...4!1shhIaXmkvV9xgcRiLb1yOLw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

It was either severed or bridged when the railway was built. If it wasn't severed then, then it was severed and reduced further by 19th century railway widening. The main part north of the railway was then lost to an iron works, but the remaining stub south of the railway continues to be named on OS large-scale maps as late as the 1970s.

This planning document indicates that the properties under the arches still have a Deal Street address.

 

[ironstone11]

The Ordsall Chord was featured on Monday in Michael Portillo's Great British Railway Journeys, Series 8: 6. Blackpool to Manchester Victoria. The programme is available on iPlayer Here

The section on the Chord starts at 16:13 into the programme.

 

[Welshman]

Just a quick question please:-

I thought I saw a poster recently saying North Wales- Manchester trains would be terminating again at Warrington for the week Monday-Friday 16th-20th January, with a rr.bus service to/from Manchester, and that this was a late amendment, not yet in journey-planners.

At the time I assumed it was to do with the Ordsall Lane Junction/curve works.

Now it was four days ago I think I saw this poster, but there still is nothing about another blockade on line.

Am I imagining it?

 

[bitmadmax]

Well this weekend there appears to be just stopper trains running between Liverpool and Eccles

Just a quick question please:-

I thought I saw a poster recently saying North Wales- Manchester trains would be terminating again at Warrington for the week Monday-Friday 16th-20th January, with a rr.bus service to/from Manchester, and that this was a late amendment, not yet in journey-planners.

At the time I assumed it was to do with the Ordsall Lane Junction/curve works.

Now it was four days ago I think I saw this poster, but there still is nothing about another blockade on line.

Am I imagining it?

 

[Class 170101]

NRES says trains not running Manchester to Chester from 23:25 each night this week.

 

[Welshman]

Thank you for your responses - I must have mis-read the poster.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The big cranes were all quiet today, maybe still on their new year break.
Plenty of work going on at deck level with the new viaduct sections, but not on the wider structure.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Presumably the Chord (including track) will have to be completed a few months before it is brought into use, is there an estimate for when this will occur?

 

[Sox]

On projects of this type, I think it can be deceptive in that all the big civil stuff and even the trackwork/primary electrics look complete but the thing that takes a lot of time is the small, unseen, electrical wire stuff, i.e. communications, protection, control, signalling and the successful testing and commissioning of same.

Especially when the project requires new systems to be integrated into existing.

Specialised electrical kit can also be on very long lead times for delivery as it tends not to be a stock item and has to be manufactured on a bespoke basis (an issue in the case of omission or fault/loss during installation/testing).

 

[SodTheDrummer]

Nice little timelapse of Christmas trackwork on Twitter.

https://t.co/yNc6ROyNqp

Is this Ordsall Lane Jn?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Nice little timelapse of Christmas trackwork on Twitter.
Is this Ordsall Lane Jn?

Yes it's Ordsall Lane Jn, from south side looking towards Victoria.
Pretty impressive. One day this will be important archival data.