Ordsall Chord

[Altfish]

I know this is hard to follow my brain, if anyone is actually that bothered about this, and how it could tie in to a possible re-opening of Manchester Central as a railway station, I'll do a schematic upon request.

Where would Labour and the Tories hold their conferences?

Don't think opening Central is either desirable or practical. It is a well established conference centre that has a different conference on most weeks. One of the two viaducts into Central now carries the busiest section of the Metrolink system.

 

[Howardh]

Where would Labour and the Tories hold their conferences?

Don't think opening Central is either desirable or practical. It is a well established conference centre that has a different conference on most weeks. One of the two viaducts into Central now carries the busiest section of the Metrolink system.

There's loads of places can hold conferences in Manchester

If the Picc/Vic underground line had been built (imo it should have!) it would be, what, at least 20 years old...maybe more today. Would we by now be considering running heavy rail through it instead of trams/underground stock (not requiring the curve) - maybe requiring the services of Fillie Mk II! - and, if so, where would the emerge at Piccadilly to link to the current heavy rail lines?

Wondered if the underground was there whether that would have been a cheaper option than the curve and extending the current line to Picc?

 

[HowardGWR]

Regarding the bottleneck, I read that one cannot expand to 4 tracks because of some buildings in the way (a bit in the way anyway). In Berlin, they are building a line straight through an existing building and I wonder if, following suitable jacking up, the same could not be done to the side of a building (was one a hotel IIRC?). I am not from Manchester, just using Street View, but it did not seem impossible to achieve. Could that not be done?

 

[Scouseinmanc]

I know this is hard to follow my brain, if anyone is actually that bothered about this, and how it could tie in to a possible re-opening of Manchester Central as a railway station, I'll do a schematic upon request.
Cheers all

I'd be interested to see it Nym

 

[Senex]

If the Picc/Vic underground line had been built (imo it should have!) it would be, what, at least 20 years old...maybe more today. Would we by now be considering running heavy rail through it instead of trams/underground stock (not requiring the curve) - maybe requiring the services of Fillie Mk II! - and, if so, where would the emerge at Piccadilly to link to the current heavy rail lines?

No need for the services of Fillie MkII -- Picc/Vic was designed for heavy rail and conformed fully to the then-current Requirements. Heavy rail services were going to run through. Remember the flyovers at Edgeley Jn and Slade Lane Jn that were part of the proposals?

 

[Nym]

I'd be interested to see it Nym

Well, you asked for it, apologies but the JPEG Driver isn't working too well today so it needs to be PDFs.

Quick sketch I just put together in 20mins, so might not be perfect...

 

[northwichcat]

If the Picc/Vic underground line had been built (imo it should have!) it would be, what, at least 20 years old...maybe more today. Would we by now be considering running heavy rail through it instead of trams/underground stock (not requiring the curve) - maybe requiring the services of Fillie Mk II! - and, if so, where would the emerge at Piccadilly to link to the current heavy rail lines?

Was there ever any indication that it would be special light rail trains opposed to whatever heavy rail EMUs were obtained for the Manchester area? (Merseyrail runs heavy rail 50xs through tunnels in the city.) I thought the proposals about converting lines like the Altrincham one to light rail only came about after the tunnel and Ordsall Chord had been rejected.

 

[snowball]

Was there ever any indication that it would be special light rail trains opposed to whatever heavy rail EMUs were obtained for the Manchester area? (Merseyrail runs heavy rail 50xs through tunnels in the city.) I thought the proposals about converting lines like the Altrincham one to light rail only came about after the tunnel and Ordsall Chord had been rejected.

Picc-Vic would have been normal heavy rail EMUs.

 

[Altfish]

If the Picc/Vic underground line had been built (imo it should have!) it would be, what, at least 20 years old...maybe more today. Would we by now be considering running heavy rail through it instead of trams/underground stock (not requiring the curve) - maybe requiring the services of Fillie Mk II! - and, if so, where would the emerge at Piccadilly to link to the current heavy rail lines?

Wondered if the underground was there whether that would have been a cheaper option than the curve and extending the current line to Picc?

The Picc - Vic Line (IIRC) only linked the two stations, it didn't link the Altrincham Line which would still have been running into Oxford Road/Piccadilly. If I remember it also went on a torturous route through St Peter's Square with a travelator from Oxford Road.

Must admit, I'm very pro-trams and feel that the Picc-Vic would have been an expensive way of achieving less than Manchester has today.

I notice that are no proposals for a tunnel today, it could still be built.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I know this is hard to follow my brain, if anyone is actually that bothered about this, and how it could tie in to a possible re-opening of Manchester Central as a railway station.

I have spoken to a contact at Network Rail who said that he wishes you all the best with your aspiration but wishes to inform you that the reopening of the Manchester Central current exhibition and conference centre as a terminal railway station does not feature in any other their forward planning documentation.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Picc-Vic would have been normal heavy rail EMUs.

I've a vague memory of Tyne and Wear Metro type units being considered at one point, but it's so long ago, I'm probably just easily confused.

 

[snowball]

I've a vague memory of Tyne and Wear Metro type units being considered at one point, but it's so long ago, I'm probably just easily confused.

But 25kV of course.

 

[northwichcat]

I've a vague memory of Tyne and Wear Metro type units being considered at one point, but it's so long ago, I'm probably just easily confused.

Tyne & Wear Metro vehicles are cleared to use on NR tracks, while Metrolink trams are not.

 

[Nym]

I have spoken to a contact at Network Rail who said that he wishes you all the best with your aspiration but wishes to inform you that the reopening of the Manchester Central current exhibition and conference centre as a terminal railway station does not feature in any other their forward planning documentation.

I am aware of this...

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Tyne & Wear Metro vehicles are cleared to use on NR tracks, while Metrolink trams are not.

Unfortunately.

Their absence would make a little electrification project in the North East possible.

 

[edwin_m]

Tyne & Wear Metro vehicles are cleared to use on NR tracks, while Metrolink trams are not.

Only under special signalling rules including provision of TPWS, which would not have been possible in the 1970s. The whole concept of tram-train, which the Metro Sunderland line uses some parts of, didn't emerge until about 1990 in Germany.

 

[Howardh]

If Ardwick Junction was just that bit nearer Piccadilly!

To avoid the Deansgate bottleneck and avoid having to build the curve, and get trains directly to the airport from the east/NE.....go past City's ground, re-introduce the curve at Ardwick, build a two-platform station on the curve....re-name it Piccadilly Platforms 15 and 16 and have a moving walkway built between that and 13/14!

If Ardwick was 4-500m nearer Picc I reckon that would have been an option!

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Ordsall chord to be challenged - again

 

[Geeves]

Errr, did they not recover the junction into the MOSI last weekend?!

 

[MarkyT]

Ordsall chord to be challenged - again

FFS . . . This is getting boring. I suppose NR will have to stop any further advance work again. I wonder what grounds to challenge they think they have now.

 

[trickyvegas]

Not the most dependable journalistic source.

 

[MarkyT]

Errr, did they not recover the junction into the MOSI last weekend?!

Are the points 1. actually removed or 2. just clipped out of use now? Or have they 3. retained a much shorter spur on the mainline side with bufferstops and just removed a bit of plain track through the construction site? 2 or 3 could be reversed fairly easily.

 

[Geeves]

Ive not been past but according to a poster the other week who posted up the summary of works it looked as though the signalling was to be removed. Its been closed that way for the last 3 weekends too.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Not the most dependable journalistic source.

Confirmed as correct though.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Confirmed as correct though.

Is he seeking leave to appeal against the decision from last month, or is this another challenge through a different route ?

 

[WatcherZero]

The decision was to not grant a right of appeal. He would have to first be challenging for the right to appeal or that there was a procedural error in the case that invalidates the ruling rather than the actual scheme itself.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The decision was to not grant a right of appeal. He would have to first be challenging for the right to appeal or that there was a procedural error in the case that invalidates the ruling rather than the actual scheme itself.

Could be a last minute injunction request to prevent work starting outside the NR boundary.
They don't usually succeed, but might delay things a bit.

 

[furnessvale]

Could be a last minute injunction request to prevent work starting outside the NR boundary.
They don't usually succeed, but might delay things a bit.

At what stage would he become a "vexatious litigant" if that is the correct term?

 

[spongsdad]

No wonder infrastructure costs such a fortune in this country. The only beneficiaries are the lawyers and the vexatious litigants. Shame on Mark Whitby.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is the matter in the public domain that are the legal costs incurred by Mark Whitby to date on the matter of objections to the Ordsall Chord?