Ordsall Chord

[GRALISTAIR]

So what was the point in building the Windsor Link again?

30 years ago it was a great option. It was also cost -effective. Why on earth would you not build it? Hell, even with the benefit of hindsight - knowing Ordsall would be > 30 years off - it still made sense to build it. IMHO the only mistake was not electrifying it and then carrying on to Blackpool at the same time.

 

[The Planner]

Mention in TfGM committee papers that Salford Central 2 extra platforms and reducing of platform gap at original 2 is now go too with court victory for the Chord however extra platform at Bolton now delayed several years.

Did we ever sort the problem of a pillar going in where they wanted the new Bolton platform?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Did we ever sort the problem of a pillar going in where they wanted the new Bolton platform?

Yes, the Skylink designer has now read NR's drawings properly ...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

... extra platform at Bolton now delayed several years.

Any update Locke?

2017, I hear.

 

[Ships]

So what was the point in building the Windsor Link again?

Allowing the planned run down of Manchester Victoria by diverting most services into picadilly

 

[snowball]

Mention in TfGM committee papers that Salford Central 2 extra platforms and reducing of platform gap at original 2 is now go too with court victory for the Chord

I hope one hasn't been lost. The last I heard there were going to be 5 in total.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I hope one hasn't been lost. The last I heard there were going to be 5 in total.

Looking at future service proposals, why is there a need for a fifth through platform at Salford Central when Manchester Oxford Road seems to manage with just four through platforms.

 

[snowball]

Well, there will be three routes converging on it: from the Chord, from Chat Moss and from Bolton. Four if you count the Atherton line which merges at Crescent.

 

[Geeves]

The 5th platform from what I saw is/was actually the opening up of the other side of the currently disused platform 4 to form an island. The two lines for the chord running on platform on 4 an 5. I believe platform 3 would have access to both the chord and Crescent. Platforms 1 and 2 as they are.

 

[snowball]

The 5th platform from what I saw is/was actually the opening up of the other side of the currently disused platform 4 to form an island. The two lines for the chord running on platform on 4 an 5. I believe platform 3 would have access to both the chord and Crescent. Platforms 1 and 2 as they are.

I believe 3 will not have access to the Crescent. Platforms 3, 4 and 5 will be for the Chord and/or Chat Moss. This plan doesn't show the platforms but it does show the tracks:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...wa-1-4-001 design drawing key plan part 4.pdf

For more plans see the third of the five pages at this link:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...ord\Volume 2 - Drawings\1) Planning Drawings

 

[bitmadmax]

Allowing the planned run down of Manchester Victoria by diverting most services into picadilly

That's how I understand it...

 

[MarkyT]

Looking at future service proposals, why is there a need for a fifth through platform at Salford Central when Manchester Oxford Road seems to manage with just four through platforms.

I think the extra platform provides a right turn lane for trains from Victoria going towards Eccles and beyond via the L&M. Such a train can wait there to allow a Piccadilly to Victoria train to pass in front without also blocking any following traffic going from Victoria to Picadilly.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I make it 5 station platforms in 2.5 miles from Piccadilly to Victoria via the new curve, along with 4 flat junctions.
It's going to be a challenge.

 

[Senex]

I make it 5 station platforms in 2.5 miles from Piccadilly to Victoria via the new curve, along with 4 flat junctions.
It's going to be a challenge.

That's putting it mildly! No doubt fine when everything is absolutely on time, but when there's even relatively slight perturbation ....

 

[geoffk]

There will still need to be a service from Bolton via Piccadilly to the Airport via the Windsor Link and probably one to Stockport. I came past MoSI today and it looked as though the link has been severed.

 

[snowball]

And Airport to Glasgow/Edinburgh will be reverting to the route via Bolton.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The full ruling is available here -- http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2015/2804.html

I see from today's news about Chinese investment in the north, that a Chinese firm is to be the main contractor for the Middlewood Locks development in Salford.
So it's just as well that "Option 15" was not brought back to life in the recent judicial review.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34607588

Further deals set to be agreed include the appointing of a Beijing firm BCEG as main contractor for the Middlewood Locks regeneration project in Manchester. The company is expected to provide £4m to kickstart the project

 

[bitmadmax]

I notice there's nothing running on chat moss last weekend and this weekend, are these engineering works to do with the chord? Anyone have any further information?

 

[LDECRexile]

I see from today's news about Chinese investment in the north, that a Chinese firm is to be the main contractor for the Middlewood Locks development in Salford.
So it's just as well that "Option 15" was not brought back to life in the recent judicial review.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34607588

Er, sorry if I've missed it, but hasn't the whole lot gone into the judge's Pending tray, in which case Option 15 remains a threat.

 

[HowardGWR]

Er, sorry if I've missed it, but hasn't the whole lot gone into the judge's Pending tray, in which case Option 15 remains a threat.

You missed it I am afraid; see back in thread please.

 

[swt_passenger]

Er, sorry if I've missed it, but hasn't the whole lot gone into the judge's Pending tray, in which case Option 15 remains a threat.

Post #718 is the first of a number of posts reporting the failure of the applicants case.

 

[LDECRexile]

Post #718 is the first of a number of posts reporting the failure of the applicants case.

Thank you, I hadn't looked back far enough.

 

[snail]

Weren't two buildings moved in the 1960s? Maybe that was one of them. Maybe its 1999 move was its second move.

They were jacked up when Shambles Square was developed in the 70s. When the development was demolished in 1999 (following the 1996 bombing) Sinclairs and the Old Wellington were dismantled and moved to their present location.
http://manchesterhistory.net/manchester/tours/tour4/area4page11.html

 

[zuriblue]

It can be done. Zürich Oerlikon station is being expanded with 2 extra platforms but a listed building - the former headquarters of Maschinefabrik Oerlikon (one of the constituents of ABB) was in the way.

They simply shifted the building 60m

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/mobile-home_massive-zurich-building-completes-19-hour-trip/32745688

 

[Altfish]

It can be done. Zürich Oerlikon station is being expanded with 2 extra platforms but a listed building - the former headquarters of Maschinefabrik Oerlikon (one of the constituents of ABB) was in the way.

They simply shifted the building 60m

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/mobile-home_massive-zurich-building-completes-19-hour-trip/32745688

bUt...if you move a viaduct/bridge then it doesn't join onto the line on either side

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I notice there's nothing running on chat moss last weekend and this weekend, are these engineering works to do with the chord? Anyone have any further information?

There's a lot of yellow machinery around Ordsall Lane Jn, and the MOSI connection to Liverpool Road station has gone.
First sign of works for the Chord I suppose.

 

[snowball]

First sign of works for the Chord I suppose.

The first sign since the announcement of the result of the judicial review. Preparatory works such as new gantries on existing lines, within existing legal powers, were already happening.

 

[Howardh]

About capacity on the existing lines Deansgate/Oxy Rd/Picc - has putting new lines over the top of the existing ones (a bit like Antwerpen centraal) been considered, or would that be horrendously expensive and/or impractical?
Thinking a line from Vic via the curve could swoop over Deansgate/Oxy Rd, have a double-decker station @ Picc 13/14 and join the main line towards Stockport.
It's easy with my old Lego set....

 

[Altfish]

About capacity on the existing lines Deansgate/Oxy Rd/Picc - has putting new lines over the top of the existing ones (a bit like Antwerpen centraal) been considered, or would that be horrendously expensive and/or impractical?
Thinking a line from Vic via the curve could swoop over Deansgate/Oxy Rd, have a double-decker station @ Picc 13/14 and join the main line towards Stockport.
It's easy with my old Lego set....

This is not London, this is part of the Northern Powercut, it has to be cheap.

On a practical level, I don't think it would work, the branch to Salford goes under the Metrolink, a double deck line wouldn't get under it. It would be a lot cheaper to make it 4-lines all the way; but there would then be a lot of demolition.

 

[Nym]

This is not London, this is part of the Northern Powercut, it has to be cheap.

On a practical level, I don't think it would work, the branch to Salford goes under the Metrolink, a double deck line wouldn't get under it. It would be a lot cheaper to make it 4-lines all the way; but there would then be a lot of demolition.

Not as much demolition as you'd think if you're willing to build an open viaduct over the road, and run back to 2 track from Oxford Road to Piccadilly.

The questionable part is just where do you cross over between the stations.

I'd look at changing between paired by route and paired by direction between Deansgate and Oxford Road, then you have two sets of slotting to do in two places rather than one.

To summarise.

4 track from Ordstall Lane Jcns, with a double slip crossover to get from the Liverpool Lines and Windsor Link before the CLC lines join (or alternatively have the Windsor Link maintain line of seperate route and be crossed by the Vic - Warrington route so it comes in as a natural 4 track, the chord joining in with the Windsor Link Lines)

Either way, we have a four track formation at Deansgate, four platforms from South to North being...

W/B CLC, Newton and Windsor Link
E/B CLC, Newton and Windsor Link
W/B Windsor Link and Chord
E/B Windsor Link and Chord

The E/B CLC, Newton and Windsor would need to cross the W/B Windsor Link and Chord between Deansgate and Oxford Road to then move to having two E/B and two W/B platforms at Oxford Road, with the possibility of terminating trains on platforms 2 and 3 if required.

These trains would then be held in their E/B platforms until clear in an alternate platform working, as with Piccadilly, the same would apply in reverse, trains being held until they're ready to complete the crossing moves, this would help build a lot of resilience back into the timetable.

I know this is hard to follow my brain, if anyone is actually that bothered about this, and how it could tie in to a possible re-opening of Manchester Central as a railway station, I'll do a schematic upon request.

Cheers all

 

[dggar]

About capacity on the existing lines Deansgate/Oxy Rd/Picc - has putting new lines over the top of the existing ones (a bit like Antwerpen centraal) been considered, or would that be horrendously expensive and/or impractical?
Thinking a line from Vic via the curve could swoop over Deansgate/Oxy Rd, have a double-decker station @ Picc 13/14 and join the main line towards Stockport.
It's easy with my old Lego set....

At public briefing meetings held about 4 years ago this idea was mentioned and rejected as not being practical. There were even renders to show a double viaduct crossing Oxford Road.