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Ordsall Chord

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LNW-GW Joint

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January 3rd 2017 - Ordsall Lane Jn remodelled, Ordsall lane Jn - Eccles resignalked and transferred into Manchester ROC. Bi-directional signalling introduced between Salford Crescent and Oxford Road, and Eccles and Ordsall Lane on the Down Chat Moss only.

Does that include a new Up to Down crossover around Cross Lane then, or are they planning to use the existing crossover at Eccles to reach the bi-di section?
The ROC area is beginning to look like a network rather than several discontinuous sections.
 
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CAF397

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That wasn't specified, in the WON, although it implies Eccles SB would be going, so the existing Up-Down crossover will be retained if its bi-di on the down only, maybe upgraded to allow higher speed (50mph?).
 

LNW-GW Joint

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That wasn't specified, in the WON, although it implies Eccles SB would be going, so the existing Up-Down crossover will be retained if its bi-di on the down only, maybe upgraded to allow higher speed (50mph?).

I was checking the bagged-up bi-di signals last week, and they only stretch a short way west of Ordsall Lane, roughly to the M602 roundabout.
It didn't look that they would run the couple of miles to Eccles, and there don't appear to be signals going in at Eccles itself.
Time for that to change, of course.
 

CAF397

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I've just come back into Manchester along the Chat Moss. The next signal after Eccles station has a new signal (bagged) opposite, for bi-di working, so it's feasible a new signal at the end of Eccles station with a number 4 route indicator will put trains onto the new bi-di Down Chat Moss.
 

louis97

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I was checking the bagged-up bi-di signals last week, and they only stretch a short way west of Ordsall Lane, roughly to the M602 roundabout.
It didn't look that they would run the couple of miles to Eccles, and there don't appear to be signals going in at Eccles itself.
Time for that to change, of course.

Eccles Signal Box remains operational with ES106 at the end of the up platform gaining a route indicator which will show a D when routed onto the bi-directional down Chat Moss towards Manchester. The crossover will be 15mph with a 75mph line speed towards Manchester when running bi-directional.
 

terryc

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Are there any plans to make the Up line bi-directional and introduce a cross-over to the west of where the up loop diverges? Thus also making the loop a possibility for becoming bi-directional?
 

QueensCurve

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Charlie Schouten tweeted a picture of Stevenson's Bridge refurbishment today.

CszMWGjXYAA1-0_.jpg:large
 

louis97

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Are there any plans to make the Up line bi-directional and introduce a cross-over to the west of where the up loop diverges? Thus also making the loop a possibility for becoming bi-directional?

Not in this re-signalling. I can't see it happening in the future either, as i'd of thought they'd of wanted to installed the signals for that in this block too.
 

snowball

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For anyone who reads Modern Railways magazine, there's an amusing and saddening letter "Speed Restriction Frustration" on page 48 of the new (October) issue.
 

Chrisyd

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Salford Central update, there are works vehicles on Platform 3 and 4 track bed again, also from the 1st October to 1st March, the lift to Platform 2 is shut. I think that this is to do with the same, as currently to get from the lift to platform 2 you walk along Platform 3 with a fence on the edge protecting you, so presumably they need the space.
 

snowball

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Well, fill us on on its contents.
It's open to you to buy the mag!

To quote his second sentence, "I have an example of a completely unnecessary speed restriction that was in place for 15 years to 2013 and may well still be there to this day."

And later he says "The main problem here is projects sticking exactly to their remits."
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It's open to you to buy the mag!
To quote his second sentence, "I have an example of a completely unnecessary speed restriction that was in place for 15 years to 2013 and may well still be there to this day."
And later he says "The main problem here is projects sticking exactly to their remits."

He will be pleased to know that the sectional appendix (Aug 2016) shows 25mph on all lines between Manchester Victoria and Deal St Jn.
However, there's still a short 10mph stretch on the Up Chat Moss, just west of Salford Central.
 

WatcherZero

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Seems Salford Central extra platforms is a bit fubar at the moment.

GMCA specced 6 car platforms when giving Network Rail the £20.5m to reinstate them and eliminate platform gaps in March 2014. Then in the latter part of that year Network Rail specced 4 car platforms in their Ordsall Chord design. TfGM and Network Rail spent 2015 discussing compromises such as SDO and having more shorter services call there. Meanwhile NR plonked a new signalling gantry in a spot needed for the 3,4,5 platform extensions. TPE has ordered five car trains which wont be able to use the new platforms and its expected other services will be lengthened in future leaving them too short for anything.

So NR is proposing the scheme be broken up in to two phases;

Phase 1 Dec 2017 platform 1 and 2 lengthened, platform gap eliminated, new canopy, design work on 6 car 3,4,5 reinstatement and the remaining budget spent on passenger enhancements such as waiting rooms.

Phase 2 Dec 2019 platform 3,4,5 reinstated and lengthened.

NR are also asking TFGM for another £20m to carry out phase two. So its in effect 100% over budget if you dont count the rump of the original budget being spent on passenger improvements.
 
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Joseph_Locke

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Within earshot of trains passing the one and half
However, there's still a short 10mph stretch on the Up Chat Moss, just west of Salford Central.

That is there for reasons of safety and not a function of remit - it was imposed in July 1998 when Deal Street junction was remodelled an is due to rate of change of cant deficiency in the reverse.

I do wish those making crass pronouncements would bother to ask those who actually knows.
 

edwin_m

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That is there for reasons of safety and not a function of remit - it was imposed in July 1998 when Deal Street junction was remodelled an is due to rate of change of cant deficiency in the reverse.

I do wish those making crass pronouncements would bother to ask those who actually knows.

It sounds very much like the one mentioned in the letter, but the writer claims it was due to a few sleepers being in poor condition but just outside the geographical boundary of the project so the project couldn't replace them. Possibly going by the railway rumour mill rather than official sources?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It sounds very much like the one mentioned in the letter, but the writer claims it was due to a few sleepers being in poor condition but just outside the geographical boundary of the project so the project couldn't replace them. Possibly going by the railway rumour mill rather than official sources?

The one in the letter was supposed to be between Deal St and the former Exchange platforms (a remnant of the old junctions there).
That one must have been removed in last year's remodelling, if not before.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It's probably not news, but you can clearly see a new bridge span taking shape to the south of the Castlefield Viaduct, near the Potato Wharf site.
Presumably it's the span over the Irwell.
If so it will be a spectacular lift to get it in place.
 

Viscount702

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It's probably not news, but you can clearly see a new bridge span taking shape to the south of the Castlefield Viaduct, near the Potato Wharf site.
Presumably it's the span over the Irwell.
If so it will be a spectacular lift to get it in place.

I think this is the new Water Street Bridge.
 

Class 170101

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Got a link to that? I'd be interested in reading further.

From Rail Technology Magazine

Salford Central Expansion

26.09.16
Additional £20m funding needed to expand Salford Central station

Plans to expand Salford Central station in order to accommodate longer trains are due to be approved at a Greater Manchester Combined Authority meeting on Friday, although they will require more funding than initially thought.

According to a report published ahead of the meeting, Central Salford Urban Regeneration and Network Rail first developed plans to reopen the disused platforms 3, 4 and 5 at Salford Central in 2011.

In 2014, Greater Manchester Combined Authority approved plans which would accommodate at least six-car platforms at the station.

However, it emerged that the signalling and track layout on the Ordsall Chord, a new rail link between Piccadilly and Victoria stations, would make it impossible for Salford Central to accommodate more than four-car trains.

Work on the Ordsall Chord began this year after it was delayed by a legal challenge from Mark Whitby, a former president of the Institution of Civil Engineers, who had proposed an alternative scheme for the development.

Transport for Greater Manchester and Salford City Council considered alternative options including more frequent services; extensions to platforms 3, 4 and 5; and allowing longer trains to use the platforms with their front and rear doors.

In April this year, the Northern franchise merged with Arriva, whilst FirstGroup took sole control of the TransPennine Express franchise. This made it more likely that longer trains will be operating in Manchester in the medium term – for example, TransPennine said it would use five-car trains from 2018.

The report also notes that the station is in a “prime location” and there is “strong support” for the improvements, with local businesses renting property near the site in expectation of increased capacity.

As a result of the Ordsall Chord works, developers have installed a new signal gantry to the west of the station, which prevents expansion in that direction. The station will therefore have to be expanded to the east to include the New Bailey Street bridge area, which was not included in the original plans.

In the report, Transport for Greater Manchester proposes a two-stage approach: platform and canopy enhancement on platforms 1 and 2, to be completed by December 2017; and reinstatement and extensions of platforms 3, 4 and 5, to be finished by 2019.

It adds that the cost of the work, estimated to be £20m, cannot come out of “the already over-programmed Network Rail budget” and “will have to be found locally”.

There is also scope for additional work, including enhanced waiting facilities at the station (which will be funded from the Manchester Growth Deal and Network Rail’s CP5 funding) and work to maximise the number of trains that passing through it.

Network Rail is currently seeking to reduce its funding shortfall, which could reach £50bn by the end of the decade, although it recently abandoned plans to sell off its telecoms network.

In a recent speech, Mark Carne, the head of Network Rail, said that the infrastructure owner should “behave like a business” and seek private investment.

There is also scope for additional work, including enhanced waiting facilities at the station (which will be funded from the Manchester Growth Deal and Network Rail’s CP5 funding) and work to maximise the number of trains that can use it.

I would be interested to know why the signal gantry has been placed in such a way and to preclude expansion of the station - seems a bit short sighted?
 
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edwin_m

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I would be interested to know why the signal gantry has been placed in such a way and to preclude expansion of the station - seems a bit short sighted?

Could even be because the sighting of the signals is too short?

Or, perhaps more likely, do they need it in that position to provide the overlaps and standage for a 6-car train without blocking the junctions?
 

MarkyT

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Could even be because the sighting of the signals is too short?

Or, perhaps more likely, do they need it in that position to provide the overlaps and standage for a 6-car train without blocking the junctions?

Agreed. A clear overlap will be particularly important for trains pulling into Salford Central from Victoria that are going on to towards Liverpool via Chat Moss. Arrival of such a train at Salford Central must be possible at the same time as a train from Piccadilly is crossing the junction in front from the new chord, otherwise the layout will be completely unworkable. The junction positions are highly constrained by curves and structures, so that in turn fixes the signal positions very precisely at that end of the station.
 

Iceflame30

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You'd think with the year of delay due to (your friend and mine) Mark Whitby, that we'd have noticed this problem _then_ and not _now_.
 

edwin_m

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You'd think with the year of delay due to (your friend and mine) Mark Whitby, that we'd have noticed this problem _then_ and not _now_.

It didn't become a problem until the extra platforms were agreed, and from the above there may have been no other solution anyway.
 
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WatcherZero

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The extra platforms were agreed first (2 whole years earlier). The issue seems to be they went ahead and installed it while still in discussion about how to rectify the final chosen chord design having short platforms.
 
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