Ordinary passengers using Heritage Railways as normal transport?

[duffield]

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• Ecclesbourne Valley Railway (available to "Shottle" or "Idridgehay" or "Wirksworth" but strangely not to "Ravenstor" for some reason?).
...

Wirksworth to Ravenstor is run as a separate service, and only runs on a restricted number of days (I make it 31 days out of 167 running days this year, ignoring the 12 Santa days).

 

[birchesgreen]

Are there any others with through tickets available?

On the IOW can get an Island Liner (i think its called) which works on the Island Line and the IOWSR. Mind you both are heritage lines so maybe this doesn't count.

 

[swt class 450]

I've always felt the Cholsey and Wallingford railway are missing a trick not running a regular commuter service from Wallingford to Cholsey station

Or even GwR turbo's or 153's running into Wallingford


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Yes it would certainly be very useful for commuters and passengers who live in Wallingford. Especially as the Cholsey & Wallingford Railway has such a simple cross platform interchange at Cholsey.

The Chinnor & Princes Risborough Railway is another one that could be useful for commuters and passengers who live in Chinnor once the extension opens.

I think a lot of these heritage railways are missing a trick. I am sure if they had regular services and decent fares than they would get well used.

 

[birchesgreen]

Yeah but running services for fun on weekends and bank holidays is a bit different to running a service 52 weeks a year, especially at times commuters would need them. Would find it a bit difficult to get volunteers to come in 6am (or earlier) on a wet Tuesday in February.

 

[philthetube]

Do you mean Minffordd rather than Machynlleth? As the FR doesn't run that far south!

Yes, sorry

 

[nferguso]

This is an interesting subject and perhaps I can comment further

It all comes down to two fundamentals: risk and reliability. In general, heritage railways operate in an environment where both of these are low when compared to the Big Railway (which we shall call 'BR' for some strange reason).

Risk.
Heritage railways operate in the world of funny money. Labour is mostly free and the operating costs of the locomotives, units or rolling stock seldom reflect the true costs of operation and maintenance. The same applies to the infrastructure. Now, to an extent the railway can get away with that provided everything goes in the right direction: certainly running DMUs that are kind to the track and are relatively easy to maintain leads to a benign environment. However, if the degree of operation becomes too great, exactly the same issues as BR start to emerge and the risk to the business increases disproportionately.

Hand-in hand with this is the staff risk: as we have found at the EVR, running (relatively) intense services day in, day out, causes stress on a pool of a nominally free but finite resource. Add to that the prospect of doing this at 05:30 on a wet Tuesday in February and the risk becomes too high. The only way to mitigate against that is to hire paid drivers and then you're dealing with significant amounts of real, not funny, money.

Reliability
Reliability operates hand-in-hand with this. Heritage railway operate mostly life-expired stock and seldom have the resilience in numbers to provide a spare if the train fails. Guaranteed reliability costs real money, as would having a fitter available for that wet Tuesday.

Then we come to the customer: cancelling a train when operating a pure heritage service is inconvenient but seldom causes the passenger real grief. Do that or run late when the passenger misses their connection on the main line and you will lose their business very quickly.


Other factors
I have been tempted to propose something like a commuter-type service on the EVR but other factors beyond risk and reliability come into play.

Our trains connect with the EMT service from Matlock to Derby and Nottingham, so why not connect with the morning and evening peak trains? The evening service would be a doddle in the summer: all we would have to do is run one extra train in the late afternoon, but the morning service would be beset with the problems above, while there's a very simple issue for normal train users. I travel to Nottingham on occasion and catch a train from Cromford, the nearest BR station to Wirksworth. I can get a table to myself, whereas if I boarded at Duffield, the train wold be full and standing. Would a 'normal' be bothered with the hassle?

Another option might be 'snow-buster' services if the weather gets really bad. Well, this is a possibility but (1) who knows if and when we might get snowfall sufficiently bad to close the road to Wirksworth and (2) how would our traincrew volunteers get to Wirksworth to take-out the train?

In conclusion, it's a lovely idea and in the summer I am proud that one can get a connecting service from anywhere in the UK through to Wirksworth with just a couple of changes. However, taking-on a true, completely reliable service is way too risky for pretty well any heritage railway.

 

[a_c_skinner]

When I lived in Wirksworth from 1979 to 1983 there were several occasions where the Derby road was dug out by JCBs, not merely ploughed out.

Andrew

 

[Firesprite]

Throughout the Summer the Swanage Railway was running an intensive service (23 trains each way) seven days aweek from 10am in the morning untill 10.30pm which has proved to be very resilience and reliable over the years.

 

[edwin_m]

The only way to mitigate against that is to hire paid drivers and then you're dealing with significant amounts of real, not funny, money.

It's also worth noting that virtually no regional rail service operates at a profit. Other things being equal the commuter ridership potential of a preserved railway is likely to be less than for a line that is still open - otherwise it wouldn't have been closed in the first place. Once it gets into paid staff and the sort of fare levels that regular commuters will be willing to pay, its costs and revenues won't be far off those of a similar branch line of "BR". Therefore it is very unlikely to be viable if some source of subsidy can be found.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Yeah but running services for fun on weekends and bank holidays is a bit different to running a service 52 weeks a year, especially at times commuters would need them. Would find it a bit difficult to get volunteers to come in 6am (or earlier) on a wet Tuesday in February.

running a 'commuter' service on a preserved line is fundamentally going to be something that needs paid staff and suitable (DMU) traction

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there anything that would stop where the preserved line has a physical connection to the national network, the local TOC running a few services down the preserved lines?

 

[philthetube]

probably some of the same issues concerning signalling and line speed, some staff would still be needed.

 

[Firesprite]

Is there anything that would stop where the preserved line has a physical connection to the national network, the local TOC running a few services down the preserved lines?

With the Swanage Railway you would need a Crossing Keeper at Norden Gates and a Signalman at Corfe Castle Box (The other two boxes being switched out)if no other trains were running on the line. It is planned in the future that the gates at Norden be controled by the Signalman at Corfe Castle.

 

[bradford758]

Keighley & Worth Valley Light Railway.
Through tickets available from the national rail network, railcards valid on the through tickets.

Sent from my 4009X using Tapatalk

 

[philthetube]

I don;t think you are right to blame Network Rail, if a toc wants to run a service I am sure that they would be happy to take the cash

 

[Mitch in Notts]

The Ravenglass & Eskdale Railway used to have a 'school train' all year, I remember seeing it in the back of the National Rail Timetable. Having just checked Wikipedia it was withdrawn in 2001. Wikipedia also states "Lady Wakefield showed that a single diesel locomotive was capable of pulling the heavy sixteen coach school train" - quite a busy service at one time then.... viz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenglass_and_Eskdale_Railway_locomotives

 

[341o2]

I don;t think you are right to blame Network Rail, if a toc wants to run a service I am sure that they would be happy to take the cash

try this

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59354
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Ravenglass & Eskdale Railway used to have a 'school train' all year, I remember seeing it in the back of the National Rail Timetable. Having just checked Wikipedia it was withdrawn in 2001. Wikipedia also states "Lady Wakefield showed that a single diesel locomotive was capable of pulling the heavy sixteen coach school train" - quite a busy service at one time then.... viz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenglass_and_Eskdale_Railway_locomotives

The Romney Hythe & Dymchurch also had a school train

In view of the actions of the mods, I think some explanation due. I understand that one of my posts has been deleted as I was responding to another post regarding the North/South divide. I cited the Marchwood branch as one which would be relatively easy to restore passenger services to, but in reality, there seems very little chance of this happening. Hence the debate regarding a line part of the national network and not a heritage line

 

[paul1609]

I'm a bit surprised here. I've just answered the thread's question with a pretty comprehensive explanation of how the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway is providing a service for ordinary passengers and - not a peep in response!

Neil, what sort of take up are you getting on through tickets now? None of the Southern heritage railways I talk to think they are worthwhile.

 

[nferguso]

Neil, what sort of take up are you getting on through tickets now? None of the Southern heritage railways I talk to think they are worthwhile.

To be frank, not that many but not to bother closes-off a potential income stream. I regard through ticketing as a 'slow burn': something that will take time to build but increases our attraction to potential passengers while helping cement our relationship with our local TOC, East Midlands Trains.

Neil

 

[paul1609]

To be frank, not that many but not to bother closes-off a potential income stream. I regard through ticketing as a 'slow burn': something that will take time to build but increases our attraction to potential passengers while helping cement our relationship with our local TOC, East Midlands Trains.

Neil

Do you have to discount your element of the ticket? One of our nearest neighbour railways through ticket is actually more expensive than buying separate tickets because the TOC concerned levies an administration charge!
The only railways Ive found that think its worthwhile are both dealing with Northern. Im interested because of our future interface at Robertsbridge.

 

[nferguso]

Do you have to discount your element of the ticket? One of our nearest neighbour railways through ticket is actually more expensive than buying separate tickets because the TOC concerned levies an administration charge!
The only railways Ive found that think its worthwhile are both dealing with Northern. Im interested because of our future interface at Robertsbridge.

We only discount slightly and our TOC doesn't add an administration charge. I would heartily recommend EMT.