Options if train cancelled on TOC-specific splits

[NorthWestRover]

I am soon to travel Wigan to Newcastle as follows (tickets purchased via TrainSplit, so I have itinerary etc).

07.38 Wigan to Preston, Avanti Off Peak Day Single
08.03 Preston to Carlisle, AP TPE only
09.22 Carlisle to Newcastle, AP Northern only

Scenario 1. In the not unlikely event of the 08.03 TPE service being cancelled, do I have to wait until the next TPE train which is bearable? (there are two theoretically an hour later at 09.00 and 09.03; if both run do I have to get the first one?) However, if they are both cancelled, do I still have to wait for TPE (10.07, 11.04 etc) or at some point am I able to get on an Avanti service?

Scenario 2. The Avanti service is delayed causing me to miss the 08.03 TPE service. Can I stay on the Avanti service to Carlisle or do I have to change at Preston and await one of the 9 o'clock trains?

In both scenarios I am aware I am likely to miss my Newcastle train at Carlisle, but I know then I can just get the next one.

 

[yorkie]

If the TPE is cancelled, I would immediately do two things (I'd do both, independently of each other):

• send a Tweet to TPE asking for advice
• ask staff at the station for advice

If neither of these grant you authority to travel on the next available train (such as if the next available train is Avanti and you are not given authority to board it) I would still approach the Train Manager, if you can locate them, as the train calls at Wigan. This may not be practicable but you can ask platform staff (if available) where the TM is likely to be (at some stations this may be a designated part of the platform)

In all cases I would say something like "I've got tickets for travel to Newcastle, with connections to make; due to my booked train being cancelled, am I able to take this train in order to make my connection please?", amending the wording to suit the circumstances e.g. "to make the next available connection"

If there is a lengthy gap in TPE services, Avanti will be obliged to convey you, but the extent of delay on TPE that would oblige them to step in is perhaps contentious and not universally agreed.

If you arrive into Newcastle late, you would be entitled to claim delay compensation from TPE, according to the length of delay.

Incidentally the fact a combination of tickets are involved isn't relevant; it could be a through fare routed "TPE & Connections" or "TPE & Northern" and the same issue would arise.

 

[_toommm_]

If you have Twitter, I'd recommend checking the @TPEAssist page the night before, as they sometimes tend to publish pre-cancellations on there. Additionally, I've found that they get ticket acceptance with Avanti because they have a WCML cancellation quite often.

If you do find yourself delayed by them, keep all your tickets, or your booking email if bought online, and claim delay repay through them if they initially delayed your journey.

 

[Watershed]

Scenario 1. In the not unlikely event of the 08.03 TPE service being cancelled, do I have to wait until the next TPE train which is bearable?

The default answer would be yes. However, there is standing ticket acceptance in place until 30 May (it's likely to be extended again, I would say), allowing customers holding TPE only tickets to travel on Avanti when a TPE service is cancelled. Therefore you can take the next Avanti service if this is sooner.

(there are two theoretically an hour later at 09.00 and 09.03; if both run do I have to get the first one?) However, if they are both cancelled, do I still have to wait for TPE (10.07, 11.04 etc) or at some point am I able to get on an Avanti service?

If both run, then by default you would have to get the first one. If you missed the first one without a good reason (e.g. it was too busy to board), you could reduce your entitlement to Delay Repay.

Even if no ticket acceptance were in place, if taking the next service complying with your ticket's route/TOC restrictions would be likely to cause a delay of more than 1 hour, you are entitled to be rerouted at the earliest opportunity. That would likely mean either ticket acceptance having to be arranged on the next Avanti service, or an endorsement being issued on your ticket, or a new Avanti ticket being issued to you. Luckily the acceptance is in place so you do not need to worry about this.

Scenario 2. The Avanti service is delayed causing me to miss the 08.03 TPE service. Can I stay on the Avanti service to Carlisle or do I have to change at Preston and await one of the 9 o'clock trains?

By default, the answer is that you must stick to your ticket's restrictions and hence change for a TPE service at Preston; there is also no standing ticket acceptance in place for delay or cancellation to Avanti services.

However, as missing the 09:22 from Carlisle would be estimated to result in a delay of 1h1m in arriving at Newcastle (the 10:23 arrives at 11:53 vs 10:52 for the 09:22), the right to re-routeing kicks in. And so in this particular scenario you would be entitled to be re-routed so as to continue on the same train to Carlisle.

In both scenarios I am aware I am likely to miss my Newcastle train at Carlisle, but I know then I can just get the next one.

Yes - and remember that you can claim Delay Repay for any delay you incur in arriving at Newcastle, based on the entire cost of your journey.

 

[NorthWestRover]

Thank you all for the very helpful advice. Watch it all go swimmingly now and the problems crop up on my return via York, Leeds and Manchester!

 

[Llandudno]

Thank you all for the very helpful advice. Watch it all go swimmingly now and the problems crop up on my return via York, Leeds and Manchester!

You can but hope!

Keep us updated to see what actually happened on the day…!

 

[NorthWestRover]

Will do.

The TPE service ran for the first time today after being cancelled on Monday and Tuesday. Funnily, the Northern train only got as far as Hexham...

 

[NorthWestRover]

Well, the 08.03 TPE service from Preston to Carlisle is cancelled tomorrow. TPE Assist Twitter has confirmed I can stay on the Avanti service I am joining at Wigan so that I still make the Newcastle train at Carlisle. This is because they have ticket acceptance in place as noted upthread.

Thanks again for advice.

Let's see how it goes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 May 2022 ==

And that all went fine. Not even a ticket check on the Avanti.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 May 2022 ==

Journey home went smoothly. TPE ran on time and the previous Wigan train was 20 late at Man Vic so avoided the 50 minute wait there. Guard said no problem and then the train ran non-stop to Wigan (well, had a signal problem, but no station stops as the saying goes).