Openable windows on the buses

[K4016td]

I wanted to ask and discuss if there is particular reason why the openable parts of the hopper windows got so small during the last couple of years (especially on Wrightbuses) and their number got reduced across the whole bus? Looking that we have so much hotter summers in the UK, shouldn't it be the opposite, and operators should be willing to install more of them? The norm back in the day seemed to be at least 6, now I've seen buses with 4, sometimes even 2 in the smaller Optare Solos.

 

[M60lad]

Is there a reason why operators don't go for sliding opening windows anymore and instead go for hopper style opening windows? The only sliding opening windows I've seen recently are on the Mellor Stratas.

 

[E-Rail]

Certainly on the MCV Evoseti, the windows were redesigned shallower to prevent them slamming closed when air circulates around the saloons at higher speeds.

 

[jp4712]

Is there a reason why operators don't go for sliding opening windows anymore and instead go for hopper style opening windows? The only sliding opening windows I've seen recently are on the Mellor Stratas.

Sliding windows tend to jam and stick, so require more maintenance.

 

[Volvodart]

It would be easier for people to throw things from the bus with the bigger gap more easily used.

 

[mb88]

Is there a reason why operators don't go for sliding opening windows anymore and instead go for hopper style opening windows? The only sliding opening windows I've seen recently are on the Mellor Stratas.

Hopper windows are also far better at stopping rainwater from entering the saloon than sliding ones.

 

[Mikey C]

I wanted to ask and discuss if there is particular reason why the openable parts of the hopper windows got so small during the last couple of years (especially on Wrightbuses) and their number got reduced across the whole bus? Looking that we have so much hotter summers in the UK, shouldn't it be the opposite, and operators should be willing to install more of them? The norm back in the day seemed to be at least 6, now I've seen buses with 4, sometimes even 2 in the smaller Optare Solos.

From a London perspective, the number of opening hoppers upstairs specified did increase for a period of time, but then was reduced once new buses started getting air cooling equipment installed.

 

[M60lad]

Yeah one thing I have noticed with ex London vehicles appearing with other operators is that virtually every window is a hopper window. I'm not sure why this always the case with buses formally operated in/around London.

 

[edwin_m]

Hoppers normally can't be opened part way, and opening a large one fully creates quite a draught - probably undesirable on all but the hottest of days, especially as it affects other people but not the person who opened the window.

 

[ChrisC]

Hoppers normally can't be opened part way, and opening a large one fully creates quite a draught - probably undesirable on all but the hottest of days, especially as it affects other people but not the person who opened the window.

I completely agree about the terrible cold drought that can be felt from open windows. I really dislike being on in a hot stuffy bus, but find it even more uncomfortable if I am sitting in a seat where the the draught from an open window is blasting icy cold air straight into my face and round the back of my neck. It’s so annoying when I’m enjoying a bus journey and someone gets on and even before sitting down immediately opens a window. They sit just below the window and it has no affect on them but other people get the full blast of cold air.

 

[LucyP]

It's about weight saving and thus fuel costs saving. That's why the windows as a whole are now much shallower on Wright buses, and therefore so are the opening hoppers.

A Streetdeck is a tonne lighter than a B9TL and 2 tonnes lighter than a B7TL.

 

[computerSaysNo]

A Streetdeck is a tonne lighter than a B9TL and 2 tonnes lighter than a B7TL.

Not sure you can make a direct comparison as a "Streetdeck" refers to a whole vehicle whereas "B9TL" and "B7TL" are only chassis so the overall weight of the vehicle will depend on how they are bodied.

I wouldn't expect anyone to know the answer but it would be interesting to know the separate weights of the B7TL, B9TL and B5TL as chassis, and the weights of the Gemini, Gemini 2, and Gemini 3 as bodies.

 

[LucyP]

But it doesn't matter. No one buys a chassis. They buy a whole vehicle and what they are concerned about is whether the whole vehicle weighs less than the previous whole vehicle from the same manufacturer, but still does the same job as the previous vehicle, but saves weight at the same time. That's why the windows are smaller.

The 7,9 and Deck all have the same body and the same interior basically. They all do the same job. Each one was progressively lighter because that saves money and that was the brief.

 

[GusB]

Not sure you can make a direct comparison as a "Streetdeck" refers to a whole vehicle whereas "B9TL" and "B7TL" are only chassis so the overall weight of the vehicle will depend on how they are bodied.

I wouldn't expect anyone to know the answer but it would be interesting to know the separate weights of the B7TL, B9TL and B5TL as chassis, and the weights of the Gemini, Gemini 2, and Gemini 3 as bodies.

But it doesn't matter. No one buys a chassis. They buy a whole vehicle and what they are concerned about is whether the whole vehicle weighs less than the previous whole vehicle from the same manufacturer, but still does the same job as the previous vehicle, but saves weight at the same time. That's why the windows are smaller.

The 7,9 and Deck all have the same body and the same interior basically. They all do the same job. Each one was progressively lighter because that saves money and that was the brief.

If any of you wish to discuss the weight of buses, integral or otherwise, feel free to start a new thread. This particular line of discussion is veering off-topic.

 

[Mugby]

I completely agree about the terrible cold drought that can be felt from open windows. I really dislike being on in a hot stuffy bus, but find it even more uncomfortable if I am sitting in a seat where the the draught from an open window is blasting icy cold air straight into my face and round the back of my neck. It’s so annoying when I’m enjoying a bus journey and someone gets on and even before sitting down immediately opens a window. They sit just below the window and it has no affect on them but other people get the full blast of cold air.

Couldn't agree more.

The problem with almost all of the hopper ventilators I see on today's buses is they aren't fitted with side baffles at each end of the glass. Such simple fittings would at least help to deflect incoming air upwards and not directly into the faces of people sitting to the rear of them.
If you look at some older buses, particularly Bristol Lodekkas and VRs, all which had hopper ventilators had side baffles fitted to them and it's an appalling omission by today's bus designers who obviously don't travel on their own products!

 

[LUYMun]

Is there a reason why operators don't go for sliding opening windows anymore and instead go for hopper style opening windows? The only sliding opening windows I've seen recently are on the Mellor Stratas.

People tend to stick their heads or parts of bodies out of windows, as can be demonstrated on this Metrobus at the 01:17 mark.

 

[InOban]

I thought that all new buses were air-conditioned? In which case there shouldn't be any opening windows - no modern trains have opening windows for that reason.

 

[busesrusuk]

I thought that all new buses were air-conditioned? In which case there shouldn't be any opening windows - no modern trains have opening windows for that reason.

Sadly very few buses in the UK have proper air conditioning. TfL would like you to think that their buses on TfL contracts have aircon but it's really just a cheapo imitation that pumps out a bit of cool air that makes bugger all difference on a really hot day. Proper aircon costs money and costs more in fuel consumption too, so many operators stay well clear.

 

[Mikey C]

Sadly very few buses in the UK have proper air conditioning. TfL would like you to think that their buses on TfL contracts have aircon but it's really just a cheapo imitation that pumps out a bit of cool air that makes bugger all difference on a really hot day. Proper aircon costs money and costs more in fuel consumption too, so many operators stay well clear.

Aircon is heavy too which is just as important an issue. I'm sure I've read that 2 axle double deckers can't cope with the extra weight of aircon.

 

[Geordie driver]

I thought that all new buses were air-conditioned?

Why would you think that?

I have been on buses abroad, same models as the UK with working air-conditioning, so clearly it can be done.

But then the cut every corner way UK buses are run, it's a non-starter.

Besides, when they jam the saloon heaters on in the summer months in a desperate bid to keep the engine cool, the air con would end up fighting the heaters.

What a way to run an industry ( down).

I recall getting a nice single decker on demo with air-conditioning, sorry I forget the model.

I caught the depot manager and the depot foreman together and asked them if we would be getting air-conditioned buses.

My, how we laughed.

 

[DunsBus]

I remember GRT Bus Group specifying aircon on a number of their orders. It was more bother than it was worth and fell out of use within a couple of years.

 

[Mikey C]

Sadly very few buses in the UK have proper air conditioning. TfL would like you to think that their buses on TfL contracts have aircon but it's really just a cheapo imitation that pumps out a bit of cool air that makes bugger all difference on a really hot day. Proper aircon costs money and costs more in fuel consumption too, so many operators stay well clear.

Also the air cooling is very effective at reducing humidity. I was on a steamed up upper deck today, then the driver put the air cooling on, on full blast, and it really reduced the humidity and the windows visibly cleared over the course of say 20 minutes. It got pretty cold as well, not enough for a hot summer's day of course, but enough to make a notable difference.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The air cooling would work better if people kept the windows shut. But on a hot day they don’t, so the whole effect is wasted.

I'm sure I've read that 2 axle double deckers can't cope with the extra weight of aircon.

I think that’s probably a bit of an urban myth, way back when Go North East specified air conditioning on their 2005-7 era Scania Omnicity single deckers without problem. They eventually turned it off, presumably when the system was due for a refurb, but still.

 

[GusB]

As we seem to have drifted from the original topic, we'll draw this thread to a close now.