Open ticket office unstaffed

[Starmill]

I'm currently at Levenshulme Station where I arrived for the 1644 at 1634. There is nobody at the ticket office and nobody else around. There is no other way to buy my ticket. I have asked the company if I buy on the train but they haven't replied.

What would you do?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm currently at Levenshulme Station where I arrived for the 1644 at 1634. There is nobody at the ticket office and nobody else around. There is no other way to buy my ticket. I have asked the company if I buy on the train but they haven't replied.

What would you do?

Take a photograph of the empty ticket office (seems you've already done this) and board the train.

Might be worth waiting there until about 1642 in case the member of staff has just gone for a wee.

 

[Darandio]

Why take a picture of such a strange angle in relation to the actual ticket window? I'm just curious as i'd have done it head on to show categorically that nobody is there.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why take a picture of such a strange angle in relation to the actual ticket window? I'm just curious as i'd have done it head on to show categorically that nobody is there.

Yes, that occurred to me, I would have taken it square on. A member of staff may have objected to this, but if they did that'd mean they'd shown up to flog a ticket!

 

[Starmill]

So that the time was included within the image

 

[Starmill]

Might be worth waiting there until about 1642 in case the member of staff has just gone for a wee.

Surely they would put up the sign to say 'back in 5 minutes' if they needed to use the toilet.

 

[Darandio]

So that the time was included within the image

Good point. I assume you are on the train now, what happened?

 

[Starmill]

Good point. I assume you are on the train now, what happened?

I've now arrived at my destination, Stockport. I went to the ticket office and explained I'd come from Levenshulme and needed a ticket. I was told I wouldn't be able to use my railcard and asked why I hadn't bought a ticket before boarding and explained as above. I was then sold the ticket "for today" but told I should buy a ticket before boarding in future. Bit rich given I could have walked away and taken the journey for free.

 

[tsr]

It still amazes me how so many stations in the north of England seem to be mentioned on here as having a ticket office, but no TVMs as backup for simpler transactions to still be available when there are no staff. It’s the other way round in most other parts of the country and probably most parts of western Europe as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It still amazes me how so many stations in the north of England seem to be mentioned on here as having a ticket office, but no TVMs as backup for simpler transactions to still be available when there are no staff. It’s the other way round in most other parts of the country and probably most parts of western Europe as well.

Knowing what I do about Levvy, I suspect a TVM would quickly be vandalised.

Heaton Chapel, the next stop down, which is posh, has one.

 

[Starmill]

There is a machine now, it just hasn't been working any time I've used the station. Not that that's frequently though so, I don't know. It also does not seem to take cash which I paid with today.

 

[sheff1]

Surely they would put up the sign to say 'back in 5 minutes' if they needed to use the toilet.

Even if they did it would be useless unless they specified when the 5 minutes started. A shop near me regularly has a sign 'back in 10 mins'. Go back past it 10 mins later and the sign will still be there.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I've now arrived at my destination, Stockport. I went to the ticket office and explained I'd come from Levenshulme and needed a ticket. I was told I wouldn't be able to use my railcard and asked why I hadn't bought a ticket before boarding and explained as above. I was then sold the ticket "for today" but told I should buy a ticket before boarding in future. Bit rich given I could have walked away and taken the journey for free.

I presume you will, no doubt, be contacting Virgin Trains to recover the tortiously charged additional amount?

 

[Darandio]

I presume you will, no doubt, be contacting Virgin Trains to recover the tortiously charged additional amount?

It doesn't looked to me like that have been charged anything additionally, just sold the ticket as requested and making it look as though they have done @Starmill a favour for today.

 

[Starmill]

Following my prompt I was sold the correct ticket, yes. It was more that, if I had been sat behind the counter my approach to that would have been more "Oh, I'm about that sorry sir, I hope we haven't inconvenienced you too much. Here is your ticket and have a good day.". Of course those are just my ideas about good customer service and Virgin Trains may not share them.

 

[Starmill]

Even if they did it would be useless unless they specified when the 5 minutes started. A shop near me regularly has a sign 'back in 10 mins'. Go back past it 10 mins later and the sign will still be there.

I agree. But obviously it's inappropriate not to allow for people to have toilet breaks, so at a single staffed station something should be in place to allow that.

On this occasion, and for me, there was no actual harm done. But it is an instructive example - what might have happened had I been going to another station? Virgin Trains' staff can't charge Penalty Fares, but other staff can and do. Clearly VT at Stockport do not have access to live information about the status of nearby stations - I would question how they can carry out revenue protection there without this. I did speak breifly to the guard and they said I should just get on the train and travel, so there was a tacit admission there from the guard that my journey would have been on the house today if I were going to another unstaffed station.

 

[Jonfun]

I've now arrived at my destination, Stockport. I went to the ticket office and explained I'd come from Levenshulme and needed a ticket. I was told I wouldn't be able to use my railcard and asked why I hadn't bought a ticket before boarding and explained as above. I was then sold the ticket "for today" but told I should buy a ticket before boarding in future. Bit rich given I could have walked away and taken the journey for free.

It does seem like a perfectly reasonable response to be honest, unless when you said initially that you'd come from Levenshulme and needed a ticket you also mentioned that the ticket office at Levenshulme was unstaffed. They won't know that information unless you tell them, and they're correct to refuse the use of a railcard if you've failed to buy before you board where facilities are available to do so. Once you told them that the ticket office was unstaffed they sold you the correct ticket today and reminded you in future you need to buy before you board, as they're only allowing you to do that today because the office was unmanned.

 

[sheff1]

I rather suspect most people travelling from Levenshulme to Stockport in such circumstances would just walk out without paying rather than going to the ticket office. When someone wanting to do the right thing is given the sort of lecture described there is a good chance that, were the situation to arise again, there is an increased likelihood that they would join the 'walk out' brigade (general point - I am not suggesting that is what the OP would do)

 

[Starmill]

It does seem like a perfectly reasonable response to be honest, unless when you said initially that you'd come from Levenshulme and needed a ticket you also mentioned that the ticket office at Levenshulme was unstaffed.

My expectation is that they are already aware of that.

The claim has been made on this very forum time and again that holes in information provision like this do not exist with Northern's penalty fare scheme and revenue protection policy.

For clarity though, I would still expect this even if these claims hadn't been made.

What is the point of the policy if they are going to speak cheekily to me, but also take my word for it?

 

[Starmill]

I rather suspect most people travelling from Levenshulme to Stockport in such circumstances would just walk out without paying rather than going to the ticket office.

I am certain the proportion of people who would leave without paying would be 90% or more, yes. Particularly because the ticket gates cannot be used at the station at that time of day - they have to be opened because it causes too much crowding on staircases and in the subway otherwise. I arrived at an ungated platform on this occasion anyway.

general point - I am not suggesting that is what the OP would do

You're correct I will continue to comply with my legal obligations in all cases, which includes paying for all of my journeys. I will however take the relatively bad faith I experienced into account in future.

 

[js1000]

I'm sorry to say this but I've experienced the same misfortune at the exact same station due to Arriva Northern's endless level of incompetence as my photo below shows.

I am supportive of a penalty fare system across the Northern network but the implementation of it is seriously flawed. How can a train operating company be trusted to fairly enforce a penalty fare system when they have PF posters up but the ticket office is closed/unattended and the machines are broke? Even other TOCs should be a little concerned as the last thing anyone wants is a pronouncement on penalty fares if someone successfully challenges against an incompetent TOC such as Northern.

If the employee has to leave the ticket office needs to go for a break or help a passenger on the platform then, at the very least, a notice and some Promise to Pay tickets on the ticket should be left for passengers to take so they can pay on the train or at the destination without any hassle. Unfortunately, I've heard stories of Northern RPIs issuing £20 penalty fares for customers wishing to purchase a monthly season tickets (in some cases of >£150) at the destination station as ticket machines do not offer these. It is frivolous to issue penalty fares against those wishing to buy season tickets - let alone someone who could not buy this ticket they wanted in the first place.

Someone needs to reign Northern in. The OP has done absolutely nothing wrong. It's sad the customer has to take a photo to prove Northern's incompetence when the legal onus is on the TOC to provide station ticketing facilities before boarding as set out in the franchise agreement.

 

[Starmill]

I am supportive of a penalty fare system across the Northern network but the implementation of it is seriously flawed.

I agree thoroughly. A proper Penalty Fares scheme is absolutely what's called for in the area. It is just incredible that they've implemented it, and that the government allow them to, if an experience like mine today can still happen.

 

[Starmill]

In the last few minutes, Virgin Trains have made their position on the matter of my journey today crystal clear:

You should always buy a ticket before travelling in order to receive discounted fares ^RD

 

[yorkie]

In the last few minutes, Virgin Trains have made their position on the matter of my journey today crystal clear:

Typical Virgin Trains attitude. Doesn't surprise me at all.

They are, of course, wrong.

I wonder if Transport Focus would be prepared to stick up for passenger rights? It may be worth contacting them.

 

[Signal Head]

In the last few minutes, Virgin Trains have made their position on the matter of my journey today crystal clear:

To which an appropriate response is "please explain how I do this when the office is unstaffed and the machine is out of order?"

Not responding and challenging this attitude allows VT to get away with it, and probably encourages them to carry on doing it.

 

[The_Train]

In the last few minutes, Virgin Trains have made their position on the matter of my journey today crystal clear:

Just out of interest, what was the message that you sent to Virgin Trains?

 

[_toommm_]

Customer: Do I buy a ticket on the train? There seems to be nobody here and no other way to buy a ticket.

Northern: The ticket office is open and therefore I would suggest waiting for the staff to come back to the window to purchase your ticket. If nobody is back before your train arrives then explain this to the conductor and they will be able to sell you your ticket. ^CM

Customer: I waited for several minutes and it was clear that nobody was there. I am now on the train as the conductor said I should just get on. No ticket though.

Northern: I am very sorry to hear this, have you been able to purchase a ticket on board? ^LH

Customer: I bought a ticket at my destination, Stockport. It is worth nothing that the @VirginTrains staff attempted charge me a higher fare for doing so. They didn't when I objected but I was disappointed.

Virgin Trains: You should always buy a ticket before travelling in order to receive discounted fares ^RD

Another commentator: even when there is no facility to buy a ticket

Another commentator: are you stating that your policy is to overcharge people if there are no ticket issuing facilities available when they start their journey? @AnthonySmithTF

Followed by some discussion with another Twitterer about the NRCoT...

 

[The_Train]

OP: Do I buy a ticket on the train? There seems to be nobody here and no other way to buy a ticket.

Northern: The ticket office is open and therefore I would suggest waiting for the staff to come back to the window to purchase your ticket. If nobody is back before your train arrives then explain this to the conductor and they will be able to sell you your ticket. ^CM

OP: I waited for several minutes and it was clear that nobody was there. I am now on the train as the conductor said I should just get on. No ticket though.

Northern: I am very sorry to hear this, have you been able to purchase a ticket on board? ^LH

OP: I bought a ticket at my destination, Stockport. It is worth nothing that the @VirginTrains staff attempted charge me a higher fare for doing so. They didn't when I objected but I was disappointed.

Virgin: You should always buy a ticket before travelling in order to receive discounted fares ^RD

OP: even when there is no facility to buy a ticket

are you stating that your policy is to overcharge people if there are no ticket issuing facilities available when they start their journey? @AnthonySmithTF

Followed by some discussion with another Twitterer about the NRCoT...

View attachment 60366

Thanks for that. Certainly gives a clear perspective of the detail both Northern and Virgin could see in the conversation and yet Virgin still stuck to the same stance about buying a ticket before travel to receive discounts.

I wonder how many folk have faced the same issue and have ended up paying higher prices than they would if they could have purchased a ticket at their origin

 

[yorkie]

To which an appropriate response is "please explain how I do this when the office is unstaffed and the machine is out of order?"

Not responding and challenging this attitude allows VT to get away with it, and probably encourages them to carry on doing it.

Train companies tend not to answer questions like that, and anyone who is insistent tends to get blocked. There isn't any mechanism to bring them to account as there is no recognised body who can make them behave themselves.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Train companies tend not to answer questions like that, and anyone who is insistent tends to get blocked. There isn't any mechanism to bring them to account as there is no recognised body who can make them behave themselves.

If only Twitter had neither a block nor a delete option.